Government should mandate the ability to downgrade the software to versions that were previously available on said hardware.
I’ve had so many issues with Apple devices losing compatibility with obscure features on apps after updating iOS, I wish I could go back occasionally to accomplish some task, and then upgrade again when finished.
The flexibility is valuable.
For example, on the newest iPad Pro, iMovie is unusable after iOS 15, completely jittery and unable to handle smooth user experiences for some reason.
TV updates are another thing. They change things with abandon and you can't revoke the updates.
Sometimes they break stuff and then you have to pray and wait until they hopefully fix them at their leisure.
IMO, it should be illegal to issue unrevokable updates so you can't get a product to have identical features as it did at the time of purchase. You should always be able to wipe it back to stock. Same with phones.
And the people who might crow about "security" - my device, my rules. I can block it on the network if I want.
That's exactly why I personally try to stay away from as many of these things/devices as I can reasonably do.
TV: just don't buy an actual TV. Buy a monitor and hook it up to a Linux box with something like Kodi. You can hook up your cable box if you have that or stream from Netflix and such. Sure, even Netflix makes it hard as you can't get 5.1 surround but I'll take that and 2.0 -> 5.1 upmix over buying a Smart TV any day!
Games: Kerbal Space program sounds fun. Lots of mentions on HN. Apparently after some company bought them up changes of this sort have been made. So I decided against getting it even though I would probably very much enjoy playing it. Don't buy games like that. Buy games like Factorio or some GoG stuff (the ones that actually do work on your current Windows OS if that's what you use ... ;)) and do not buy into the GoG Galaxy thing. Get the installers. Otherwise that's like falling for Steam or Xbox Live or whatever the "Windows Live" BS is called nowadays.
Tablets and Phones: Use them for what they're good for: Making phone calls and browsing the web on the go.
Apps are a curse, I avoid installing them as much as possible. Some exceptions prove the rule, like a free GPS tracker app for hiking created by a single guy. UI looks like it's out of the 90s but works for my use case. Found it because the other app I used started requiring a login even for the free part of the app. I refuse to bow to such things.
> TV: just don't buy an actual TV. Buy a monitor and hook it up to a Linux box with something like Kodi. You can hook up your cable box if you have that or stream from Netflix and such. Sure, even Netflix makes it hard as you can't get 5.1 surround but I'll take that and 2.0 -> 5.1 upmix over buying a Smart TV any day!
I've looked into this, but this option is really not great, either:
- Large Monitors are unavailable or (if you use business monitors) a lot more expensive and usually don't have latest panel tech.
- You'll loose surround sound and also 4K on most platforms
- The integration is usually worse (you'll have to start more devices, if you're lucky CEC decides to work)
- Good luck with HDR
I personally settled for a SmartTV behind a PiHole-equivalent, but an Apple TV or an Android TV combined with an offline smart TV are good contenders, too. Unfortunately, there's really no silver bullet right now.
I have bad news for you. Even if the TV is not connected to your WiFi, it could still get into the network over other devices connected via HDMI with HEC [0].
Although it could be a general concern, it unlikely to affect me.
Since all the HDMI connections are via a (slightly older, non-connected) AV receiver, its almost impossible for this to affect my setup. But it's indeed a sleazy move by those setting the HDMI standards.
- Large Monitors are unavailable or (if you use business monitors) a lot more expensive and usually don't have latest panel tech.
Agree, monitors in regular TV sizes are way more expensive than the largest 'cheap' monitors. But I'd rather make a decision between paying $300 CAD for a 32" monitor that is 'large enough' but not huge or a ~43" monitor that is way larger, has 4k etc. and costs ~$1200 CAD etc. or a $500 50" 4k "generic Smart TV" in "dumb mode" than to use it as an actual Smart TV.
- You'll loose surround sound and also 4K on most platforms
There you go, no expensive 4k monitor needed if you can't get it anyway. Surround sound I'll give you but see your sibling if you are so inclined to go the potentially unlawful but ethically probably totally OK route.
- The integration is usually worse (you'll have to start more devices, if you're lucky CEC decides to work)
To be fair it's been a while that I've had cable and had to deal with that and that was in low-def times (so I had a cable card in the mythtv server). I don't fancy setups w/ IR switching cable channels and such but to be honest, I think it's worth it to at least try if you have to keep actual cable for some reason. Nowadays other viable options than having cable do exist if you ask me.
- Good luck with HDR
I probably just don't know what I am missing and as long as it stays that way it's like staying on 720p and a monitor most people would think is way too small but actually totally adequate than to complain that my huge 4k one looks bad with that source material ;)
offline smart TV are good contenders, too
Totally agree, if you're looking for a cheap huge "monitor" that can definitely be a good option as long as you stay away from the actual "features" and are fine with the other limitations.
Personally I'm on a 32" regular HD IPS panel monitor. Given the size of the living room and how far away the sofa is, this is totally adequate (I upgraded from my >>>10 year old 4:3 "I don't even remember the size of it" monitor when it finally broke!). Surround sound depends on the source. If it's Netflix the upmix is "good enough" for most of what the kids wanna watch and then there's other material too where proper AC3 is available. Most of the times I can't really have the bass turned up anyway so as not to wake the kids :P
We paid 2000 EUR for a 55" HD (1K) Sony in 2010, and would happily go down a bit in size as it's now mounted over a piano that frankly sees a lot more use than the TV. I'm completely ok with paying 1000-1500 EUR to get a 40"-50" 4K set that we don't have to constantly give the side-eye once the current one gives up the ghost. We rarely watch anything, so it might be more of a question of whether this one will outlive 720p/1080p freeview or not.
After a good nights sleep I think I want to revise this (can't edit).
I think it's prudent not to even buy a Smart TV and use it in "dumb mode". If we do this, we are not voting with our wallet. I'm not sure how likely we would be to have a large enough effect numbers wise but one can try. If we don't try, we've already lost.
You're still voting with your wallet to the effect of the TV not being able to serve the ads that it otherwise would.
But anyway, ever since content consumption became prominent on mobile smart devices (smartphones, tablets), this battle is already lost - the TVs are merely playing catch-up with the rest of the industry.
I'm a software engineer because I love technology.
Your opinion is fine don't get me wrong but my 4k 55" OLED tv is really really impressive.
It's a marvelous picture.
My DSLR images look brilliant on it, games do as well, HDR is surprising ly nice as well.
We watch most tv shows still on a 10 year old 720p beamer due to image size. 110" is still more immersive than 55". But I do expect being able to buy 110" 4k in a few years either through a more affordable 4k projector or by microled panels.
I can't follow your 4k = full of propaganda Point. Not sure what you mean by it.
I'm into fractal videos (e.g.: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cgp2WNNKmQ), and resolution makes a huge difference there. I got a 4K TV largely for this reason, and seriously considering 8K for the next one.
> Netflix makes it hard as you can't get 5.1 surround
Then get it from *ahem* elsewhere, you've paid for access to that content in that quality, if they can't provide that… Maybe if enough do that they'll fix the problem, so they can start tracking your use of the content again when you return to consuming it their way.
> TV: just don't buy an actual TV. Buy a monitor and hook it up to a Linux box with something like Kodi.
I simply bought a non-smart TV. I just made sure it had a number of HDMI ports. I plug my various media sources into the HDMI ports.
A "smart" TV must be the most un-smart TV possible - you're stuck with whatever's there. The "smart" part (say, a Pi or a Chromecast or both) must be detached from the display device (the TV), not a part of it.
"smart" TVs remind me of back when I bought a webcam with integrated Skype, for my old parents. It did make it easy for them to skype with their grandchildren, using the TV. But of course Skype, or MS at the time, plugged the pull on the version of Skype used by the webcam and then it became a brick. Never again.
That may be changing, but when I bought my 49" non-smart TV a few years back it was quite a bit cheaper than the same-size smart TVs. It wasn't that long ago, but a quick check at the same shop shows only "smart" (read: stupid) TVs. Unfortunately. As the price for the non-smart TV I bought was lower than the equivalent "smart" version I believe we'll be paying for a feature we don't need.
> Games: Kerbal Space program sounds fun. Lots of mentions on HN. Apparently after some company bought them up changes of this sort have been made.
The changes to Kerbal are in Kerbal Space Program 2, not the original KSP. I highly recommend KSP, go ahead and get it. KSP 2 will have better graphics and add some new capabilities to the game, but honestly you could play KSP for years (I have) and not get tired of the graphics or what the game offers. To me KSP 2 seems like a competing game, not a replacement.
Nope, not mixed up. Redshell apparently was added in KSP 1.4 by Take Two. After an uproar in the community it was removed again but personally this is something that's just too big of a thing to dismiss. Not changing my mind.
Thank you. I had not head of Redshell, and I thought that you were referring to features being removed. I'll now be very wary to see if spyware like this is installed again.
My Vizio TV updated itself a month ago, and I only noticed because changed the default behaviour of which input to open on when it turns on, which was really irritating.
After finding the menu entry to fix it, that in particular was no longer an issue.
However, around the same time, my PC input began to blank out for a second at a time at random intervals which was very irritating. On a lark I performed a factory reset and didn't set up my wifi credentials, and it hasnt misbehaved since.
I'm saying there should be a law where the govt punishes the company.
If the law needs me as an individual consumer to procure my own team of lawyers to go up against a multinational every time I buy a new TV, then that law might as well not exist.
The damages would probably only qualify for small–claims court. These cases don’t take much time to present or judge, and the evidence you need is quite straight forward. Consulting with a lawyer on the matter, if you wanted that extra assurance, wouldn’t cost much.
I consider my time for a day off work, travel to court, preparation, irritation, etc more than the value of the TV, and they probably wouldn't pay me damages for those things.
The point is that I shouldn't have to do that as an individual for every purchase.
We need a blanket rule that they can't remotely modify purchased items in a way that cannot be rolled-back by the consumer to the functionality at the time of purchase.
I'm in Australia. Although we're covered by what I consider to be pretty good consumer guarantees, you can still only demand a refund in the case of a "major problem" with the product.
I don't think simply being unhappy with it connecting outside would qualify, although IMO it should.
It depends on the retailer, but probably you won’t be able to return it for a refund. You should attempt it though, or at least be able to present the retailer’s return policy as evidence in small–claims court.
This is why punitive damages exist. Because you can sometimes get a lawyer to work on your case with no cash. So they can collect a large percentage of those punitive damages.
Looks like this was partly successful against Sony but it took six years in court and people didn't get the whole price back when they removed Linux support from the PS3:
Those damages were assigned with the assumption that most people didn't buy a PS3 to run Linux on it. If you opted out of the class action I have no doubt you would have gotten a full refund.
>As a software engineer can you imagine supporting every version of your software you ever released? Sounds like a nighmare.
This would teach us developers to do better.
Like don't push random updates that break shit. If your product is not filled with security issues you should be able to backport a fix for that giant secuiry bug you found, you can ignore the crashes. Anyway this big companies can afford to pay you to backport some fixes . It is not like some volunteer is forced to backport fixes in his free time.
> As a software engineer can you imagine supporting every version of your software you ever released? Sounds like a nighmare.
Perhaps we (developers) need to get better at this. We care so much about pushing features and being agile and all, but when it comes to supporting old releases: "umm, no. It's a nightmare".
I wouldn’t expect support for old versions, just the ability to download and install knowing that a downgrade by definition removes some fixes (and possibly restores something of interest).
I’ve had so many issues with Apple devices losing compatibility with obscure features on apps after updating iOS, I wish I could go back occasionally to accomplish some task, and then upgrade again when finished.
The flexibility is valuable.
For example, on the newest iPad Pro, iMovie is unusable after iOS 15, completely jittery and unable to handle smooth user experiences for some reason.