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> "Please fly with a parachute"

Do pilots of small aircraft consider this in practice?

(As someone who doesn't fly, it's obviously an interesting thought experiment as a means to survive, but I would imagine most pilots are going to be looking to recover or land the aircraft, not bail out of it?)



> Do pilots of small aircraft consider this in practice?

No. Not unless it's required (doing aerobatics work requires it, which is rather more likely to overstress the aircraft than regular mostly straight and level flying).

Small airplanes just don't fall apart in flight (exceptions like the Piper wing spar in training duty are just that - exceptions, and typically lead to a lot of exception requirements). They only come apart if you've already screwed up a lot - usually lost control flying into a cloud without an instrument rating and ended up in a graveyard spiral (nose down, steep bank, you either hit the ground at speed or pull the wings off first, and then hit the ground at speed).

I know a lot of GA pilots. I know none who fly with parachutes.

Things like the Cirrus airframe chute are interesting, and have saved some people, but Cirrus seems to attract a large number of people who outfly their skill level and get themselves into a lot of trouble. Sometimes the parachute helps, but they shouldn't have been there in the first place.

General wisdom is that once the engine quits, the airframe is the insurance company's problem. However, an awful lot of the time, the pilot is able to perform a safe off-airport landing with minimal or no damage to the aircraft. You can safely land on roads, in fields, in random desert, etc, and walk away with a perfectly usable airplane. A typical single engine GA aircraft only lands at about 50mph. It really doesn't take much distance to get down and, if not stopped, at least slow enough that you don't really hurt yourself or the airframe if you go off the end of [whatever].


CAPS (the Cirrus parachute system) has a pretty impressive record. One of the ways Cirrus actually improved crash survivability for their aircraft was training pilots to start by assuming they're going to pull the chute. Might they be able to perform a successful engine-out landing? Yes. Might they be able to restart the engine? Also yes. But, by starting with the mindset "Plane failed, pull the chute" you don't fixate on these ideas past the point where the chute ceases to be available, so when that engine won't start, and you realise you can't find that long straight road you'd always imagined landing on, you still have enough altitude to pull the CAPS handle and live to make better choices another day.

On their Vision Jets they also have emergency autoland, which is a blessing under FAA conditions where realistically some elderly pilots are going to die up there, leaving anybody else in the plane to get down on their own. Is it possible to talk a zero experience lay person down in a single engine plane when their pilot buddy slumped over suddenly in level flight? I wouldn't bet money on them even operating the radio correctly. But the emergency autoland can put that plane back on the ground pretty reliably, maybe even in time for the pilot to receive medical attention if they're merely incapacitated not yet dead.


It amazes me how many pilots I see on here when the topic comes up. Is it because this site is just popular enough to have a mix of everyone or is there some true demographic overlap here?


I would assume there's a decent overlap between tech types/programmers/etc and pilots. They have the money for it (GA is not as expensive as most people think, but neither is it cheap), and they have the whole attention to detail/"The more gauges the better!" attitudes that tend to work well with flying.

There also seems to be a pretty good overlap between motorcycle riders and pilots. Find a middle aged man riding 10k+ miles/yr on a BMW or similar, and there's a very good chance he's a pilot too.


Both. A lot of people are on HN. There's also a big demographic overlap between pilots and HN readers. So, lots of pilots on HN. Source: pilot turned software engineer in San Francisco.


No. Glider [sailplane] pilots routinely do, but only because of their habit of soaring together in thermals, and the increased risk of a mid-air collision. Larger and much newer (i.e. more expensive) general aviation aircraft sometimes have a "ballistic recovery system" fitted where the whole aircraft has a parachute -- Cirrus a/c are famous for this. Other than that, pilots dropping skydivers use them. And in some jurisdictions, aerobatics. And that's it.

General aviation is about as safe as riding a motorbike. You're trained to not get into that situation in the first place -- it's a very fishy video for many different reasons. We plan for eventualities! Pilots assume that everything _will_ fail and ideally don't let themselves get into a position where a parachute is needed. I've been in a glider (ASK-21) under tow from a tug plane (a Piper Pawnee) where it lost an engine cylinder at exactly "the worst point" on the way up. The pilot waved us off immediately, and we both executed our well-practiced "eventualities" plan for that airfield, with no incident whatsoever. An investigation showed that the engine casing on the Pawnee had cracked, despite recent inspection.


They're required when performing aerobatics, or if you plan to open the door in flight. (e.g. pilots of skydiving planes need to wear one, even though they plan to land with the plane)

But bail-out rigs are much smaller than normal skydiving rigs; the latter would be uncomfortable to wear while operating the plane. A bail-out rig is thinner, shaped more like a seat cushion, and contains only a single parachute, often a non-steerable round (which can reliably open much lower).

Example of typical bail-out rig: https://www.summitparachutesystems.com/pilot-emergency-back-...


> (e.g. pilots of skydiving planes need to wear one, even though they plan to land with the plane)

This is not true. I've watched numerous youtube videos of pilots flying skydivers and I've never seen them wearing a parachute. Flight Chops, for example. The pilot in question in the videos was chief instructor for a flight safety training company.


I thought this was required by the FAA advisory circular governing parachute operations (https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/... - PDF), but after just looking, I now think it was part of the supplemental type certificate (https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/air_cert/design_approvals/stc/) or 337 approval for the door modifications on the planes at the drop zone where I used to work.

Thus, it probably depends on the aircraft, and possibly the process by which the owner got FAA approval to modify the door.


I've been a skydiver for many years and as far as I know the FAA _does_ require the pilot to wear a bail out rig. Most skydiving pilots I know do wear them, but I have come across some pilots not wearing them in flight (even though their bail out rig was in the plane next to them).


Flight Chops is based in Canada, so anytime he's flying up here he'll fall under Transport Canada and Canadian Aviation Regulations (CARs). There are no legal requirements in Canada for pilots to wear parachutes.


Literally never (former flight instructor). I have no idea how to operate a parachute. Not required knowledge!

Occasionally a student pilot will inadvertently get into stall/spin (only allowed at a proper altitude) during stall training. The value of the student getting into the stall spin, and flight instructor calmly saying "what are you going to do?" is way higher than a parachute. Low altitude stall/spins are essentially not recoverable (in time) and you die. A parachute won't help you, you're not getting out of the plane soon enough. And a parachute as a fallback for proper stall/spin recovery technique to me is idiotic. Don't get in a stall spin low to the ground, and if you have the altitude you recover. Either you can't parachute out or you don't need to. That's the bottom line.

Further, my confidence getting out of the plane with a parachute on is essentially zero. Whereas I know I can recover from a stall/spin. In fact, normally trimmed, most planes have positive static and dynamic stability, and will recover from a stall spin on their own if you just relax back pressure on the yoke. Which I'd have to do to parachute away from the plane. So hilariously, by jumping from the plane, the plane has a very good chance of recovering on its own, obviating the need to jump.

Now for aerobatics training, it's different because plausibly you could stress the airplane enough to break it. At which point it might be uncontrollable enough you'd need to parachute out to survive. And flight over hazardous terrain is another plausible scenario although I'd argue that's just plain bad flight planning. WTF are you doing planning a flight where you can't glide to a road? I've done quite a lot of mountain flying and it's not difficult to plane this, at least in the lower 48. In Alaska and Canada, I'm sure there's a bit of a chuckle the idea of being in gliding distance of a road or some flat enough surface.

But for the other 95% of flights going on, you're not considering a parachute. No. I've never worn one.


> *I'm sure there's a bit of a chuckle the idea of being in gliding distance of a road or some flat enough surface*

So I just saw a video on YouTube which analyzed an incident of a plane outbound from Aspen which was flown into the ground. I'm sure if the terrain were about 6000 ft lower it would not have been considered hazardous. They simply failed to get high enough to go over the pass, and when they tried to turn around and give up they hit the ground. So the point is, they couldn't fly under power safely back to the airport, gliding wasn't a factor.

https://youtu.be/8PBUVMCbmFQ


I just watched the video. AOPA puts out great stuff. Everything they say here is spot on.

It's not simple failure to get high enough. That was not the fatal mistake. It's multiple mistakes, the accumulation of which results in no more choices. Poor flight planning, possibly an inhibition of an ATP to ask "lower ranked" local pilots about various routes, and waiting too long to abort. They lacked an abort plan. They could not have been asking "what do I do right now if the powerplant fails?" Because they not only accepted going passed the point of managing a powerplant failure, to the point where they had no options even with a fully operating powerplant. There was nothing wrong with that airplane. It was all errors in judgement that lead to no choice but a crash.

Having flown in and out of Aspen many times myself, I have never used Independence pass. I've opted for the down valley northwest route for climb out, then north, and finally east to Corona/Rollins pass. Many choices before, during, and after pass crossing. A local pilot would have given alternatives to Independence, and their reasoning. A local flight instructor would have reminded them about density altitude, leaning, and even the option of not taking off fully fueled in order to improve climb performance, and fully fuel on the other side of the mountain range instead.

Colorado sees this same lack of awareness of the effects of altitude with hikers all the time too. Folks from New York and Florida and California, regularly climb 14ers in fall and unwittingly get stuck in snow storms while Denver is clear as a bell, having no imagination at all for treachery. And their families are appalled when the search and rescue is called off because it's even too treacherous for S&R operations. Happens every year.


The mantra of mountain flying, "altitude is your friend".

You can't fight physics. Normally aspirated planes are seriously underpowered at high altitude. It's shocking. And they don't have much excess power to start with.

This pilot made a fatal mistake much earlier than the actual accident by not becoming deeply uncomfortable at the low altitude perniciously taking away all options. He assumed the rate of climb would get them over the pass. A small tailwind makes this even worse as it reduces the time you gave for climb.

Every time I fly in the mountains I see planes well below my altitude, thousands of feet. I've slowly build up a store of power and thus choices, including more time to troubleshoot, more time to announce position which is a line of sight transmission.


So hilariously, by jumping from the plane, the plane has a very good chance of recovering on its own, obviating the need to jump

That reminds me of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornfield_Bomber


I was doing a video shoot of a group of sky divers, but I was not getting out of the plane. I don't know the exact make/model of plane, but it was small. I was provided a parachute. I was told it was required by regulations that all in the plane needed one. The only training I was provided was a pointing to a handle on a chest strap and the phrase "if you find yourself outside of the airplane, this is the only thing you will want to be concerned".

I did not enquire about what subsection of the regulations made this requirement or any of the qualifications of equipment. The pilot did have a parachute on as well.


> I did not enquire about what subsection of the regulations made this requirement or any of the qualifications of equipment.

I'm glad it turned out okay. Personally, I've learned over time that plenty of people will sacrifice my safety or financial risk for their convenience. Now I'm rarely satisfied by them saying "Don't worry, it will be fine. Everyone does is this way." I'm glad that I've learned to stick up for myself under that kind of pressure.


For some small airplanes (I think every one by Cirrus), they actually have a parachute for the entire aircraft


I don't think it's normal for the overwhelming majority of pilots who fly single engine propeller planes. The Cirrus is very much an exception. Given the older ages of many people who are private pilots, they probably shouldn't be parachuting regardless.


In almost 30 years of flying light aircraft here in the US, I have worn a parachute only when obliged to - during aerobatic flights. (Technically required only if you are not alone.) And the one time I intentionally skydived.

So, it seems odd to me.




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