I'm a newish ham and got my license a couple of years ago. One thing that may not be obvious to long-time hams is how alienating the testing experience can be. Many of us learn online or through printed resources, and our first time meeting the local club is test day. The test process leaves a lot to be desired.

For example, my local area only has exams once per quarter. The time frame is 9 AM - noon on a weekend day, theoretically you can start any time. So I show up at 10 and quickly fill out the 30 question multiple choice technician exam. No problems so far! But then I have to sit and wait over an hour for 3 different examiners to get to my exam and grade it one after the other. I don't know why this rule about grading in triplicate exists, but it meant that despite finishing my exam maybe 90 minutes before the session ended, I was told there wouldn't be enough time for me to take the general exam and get it graded that day. Meaning I had to get up at 8 AM and travel to a neighboring city on the next exam date to get my general license.

The whole thing just feels unnecessarily bureaucratic and alienating, particularly for a hobby. It was less of a hassle last time I went to the DMV.

I got my license during the pandemic, the class and testing were all done remotely. I've never physically met anyone else that has a license (to the best of my knowledge - maybe I walked by someone in a store).

It's unfortunate that that was your experience. The VE experience does vary a lot from one region or group to another. I know there are VE groups that absolutely do better than this even with the conventional paper approach, make it a priority to do things efficiently, and make sure people can sit for all the exams they need/want during any given session. Also, for what it's worth, the entire study and exam process has been undergoing a lot of transformation, especially in response to the pandemic. I expect to see changes in this process, including expansion of online test opportunities, in coming years.

I'm from the generation that had to go to the local FCC office to advance from novice. You copied code in a glass room with echo's that made things challenging. The FCC guys always seemed gruff and non-smiling like they didn't particularly enjoy the task. Some hams had to travel hundreds of miles to reach a local FCC office.

I would imagine the volunteer examiner program would be much easier. But it sounds like it could be made much better. However to an extent the FCC is still driving the rules. Governments are by their very nature bureaucratic.

My grandfather was a HAM radio operator (KB2SX) and ran at least one ham radio group.

My experience with him was that he'd go on nightly, or semi-nightly, and meet virtually with other HAM radio operators.

He wanted me to take a HAM test, but by the time I was at an age that would have been appropriate, there were other technologies emerging such as BBSes, online service providers (Compuserv, Prodigy and AOL), and then later the Internet.

These technologies were so exciting to me, and I am sure that had they existed when my grandfather had started out, he would have used them instead of HAM radio, as for him it was about the socializing and connection.

For those younger than me (43), I imagine that HAM radio has an appeal as a retro technology, but not much else. One can't even transmit encrypted data across it legally, limiting even basic data transmission technology.

This isn't so say that there isn't a part of me that's nostalgic for sitting on my grandfather's lap watching him tune the dials and adjust the glowing meters, but even for someone as middle aged as me, HAM radio was more of a nostalgia technology.

You're also right about the younger folks finding many HAM operators to be curmudgeony. They're protective and can be somewhat elitist, with a high degree of friction (time, energy and cost) to even begin in the hobby, a smart kid who wants to tinker can find more welcoming hobbies.

Heck... telephony technologies are now considered retro! Many kids today have grown up without a landline in their home.

Here's the paradox: radio communications play a much more significant role in our lives today, yet there is far less interest in experimenting with this modern (not retro) technology. Even those who are interested in electronics and who experiment with radio in a manner similar to radio amateurs in the past are unlikely to build wide area networks or experiment with new modes.

We are the same age and we have seen the same progression of technology. I would argue that some of it is analagous to amateur radio. BBSes and some aspects of the Internet are very much in the spirit of ham radio. These are technologies that people used for communications and where people experimented as amateurs rather than as professionals. Just as radio amateurs created their own networks of repeaters, people setup networks of BBSes (e.g. relaying between BBSes or wiring LANs).

I think that amateur radio faultered when it became more like online service providers or the modern web: people continued to use what was there, but it stagnated since few were experimenting and few were interested in creating infrastructure.

I also see that attitude leaking into our online world. Consider something like Gemini. Some people experiment with it (as either developers or for communicating with others), which is very much in the spirit of ham radio. Yet there are also numerous naysayers, those who see their fancy new rigs (or web browsers) as being the only true measure of progress even though they can only partake in that world as the modern version of a ragchewer.

The technology is hidden and restricted by NDA and made up FCC rules, that's why.

There's underground digital radio FOSS but no way to do it legally. Slow going because of NDA.

Yep, what's wild to me is there's actually a non-insignifiant overlap between radio and networks(ex: aloha from RF links in Hawaii ended up heavily influencing Ethernet and most of your cable modems use a variation of coding scheme(QAM) that is also widely used in more modern radio protocols).

> Here's the paradox: radio communications play a much more significant role in our lives today

Disagree. Digital radio yes, but that's "just digitial". Analog radio is a dinosaur.

Except that digital depends on... analog radio. I honestly wish there was better ecosystem for SSB 2M or robust SDR platforms. You have a host of digital modes on HF but most of the 2M/70CM radios/chips are FM/FSK.

> For those younger than me (43), I imagine that HAM radio has an appeal as a retro technology

Under 43 here as well as someone involved in the retro scene. HAM stuff was never a retro for me, however I have consider looking into it when I developed an interest in RF based computer networks (my interest originated with modern tech). As someone who undereducated as fuck it seems like a decent way to build some of the base knowledge that I don’t have. I just haven’t got around to looking into it much.

> Heck... telephony technologies are now considered retro!

heh my most recent retro deep dive has been into ISDN.

I actually tried to get a landline. Only thing available was a a DOCSIS modem for encapsulating VoIP traffic.

>I actually tried to get a landline. Only thing available was a a DOCSIS modem for encapsulating VoIP traffic.

And yet, the landlines still exist, fully built out right to the homes they serve. They're owned by (in theory) the US public which paid to construct that entire network. Because of the years of use and the need for universal service, it's still the most extensive network infrastructure that exists in the US, period.

But access to them has been closed off by corporations who don't want competition and don't have a problem paying to get the laws in the US changed to suit their profits.

They don't sell ordinary copper land lines themselves any more because selling such a cheap product would compete with their higher priced "low end" offerings.

They don't let anyone else use the POTS network because that would also compete with them. You can transmit a lot of data over a plain old pair of copper wires point to point, can't have anyone but the phone companies doing that because it would "cause problems" for the POTS network.

They've claimed monopolies almost everywhere, subsidies from the government and tax breaks from the states in exchange for providing "internet access" to places that don't have good connections, like rural areas.

There's no one else the country can ask to do that sort of thing because they fight against allowing anyone else access to the network, yet whenever they're asked to produce, they claim they need to be given more money. Wait a few years and repeat, over and over.

Telecommunications companies in the US are some of the most corrupt organizations that exist. It's astonishing that people ignore them as long as they have good cell signal.

I'm not under 43, I'm 43. :)

It also may be that when I 14-18 was a transformational time for the technology of computer communication. It was exciting.

Maybe that excitement isn't there for people who are "always online".

> heh my most recent retro deep dive has been into ISDN.

Do you consider ISDN separate from telephony or part of it?

> Do you consider ISDN separate from telephony or part of it?

It’s kinda of weird. I consider it telephony for sure (half of the TE’s I have are phones and a lot of equipment is T1/E1 equipment for PRI lines) but I also consider it under early computer data networks as it could carry X.25, Frame Relay and other types of traffic. It predates my time using computers a bit, but I believe it was also used for internet connections as uncommon as it was here.

X.25 and friends definitely carried internet traffic.

Probably a measurable portion of dial up Internet when compuserve started selling access to their dial plant to ISPs. I worked at a place in the 90s that used compuserve x.25 to get ppp access to our network. It was completely unprotected, all you needed to know was the six character node name and you were in.

Never got too far into X 25, I spent a couple nights after work cruising the network and finding all sorts of stuff that looked like it was on the same level of security.

see, telephony is retro now ;)

people are already making their own cell networks, so not sure what's next :)

Ham radio on cell.

Problem same. It is not the technology it is the restriction. You use a common pool of radio which is shared. Regulation and rules of engagement abounded.

Still it is better than just radio station as ham is 2 way (and n way based on 2 way). It is a bit decentralised. But read last paragraph. Totalitarian state would not like it.)

To me, the encryption things is a big issue. In 1950, transmitting for the world to hear seems reasonable. In 2021, virtually anyone with a few grand could record literally everything transmitted on the 160, 80, 40, 30, and 20 meter bands and archive it for all eternity.

Do I want my casual conversations going into some historical record?

Probably not.

Testing is also a bother. I support testing, mind you, but so much of this is memorizing factoids. "What segment of the 20-meter band is most often used for digital transmissions (avoiding the DX propagation beacons)? (A) 14.000 - 14.050 MHz (B) 14.070 - 14.112 MHz (C) 14.150 - 14.225 MHz (D) 14.275 - 14.350 MHz."

At least we finally got rid of Morse Code.

And aside from that, the authorized modes of transmission aren't that interesting anymore. I'd enjoy experimenting with things like spread spectrum, or similar types of innovative things. Building an SSB radio in 2021 seems archaic.

I think these things are changing, though I hope the changes come sooner than I suspect they actually will. I know there is ongoing discussion about how to bring rules more in line with modern practice and tech, such as the explosion of interest in digital operation over the past decade or so. I doubt this will reach to authorization of fully encrypted casual comms, though some form of encryption isn't out of the question when you get into the emergency comms piece of amateur radio, which is restricted from passing certain health and welfare information over the essentially "open line" of ham radio.

A lot of this is closely related. Encryption and spread spectrum are sort of tied. Ideally, spread spectrum looks like noise. My carrier isn't a sine wave, but something which looks a lot like a one-time pad. If I'm allowed to experiment with modern transmission, security goes up, at least beyond the level of a casual listener.

I also think you could maintain the spirit of ham radio with encryption. It kind of depends on how it's done. If I establish an encrypted connection to a stranger on the waves, and I'm using the connection to peddle commercial goods, if I do it enough times, someone will report me.

There's also the issue of security when interacting with anything digital. I don't mind remotely controlling equipment in the clear, perhaps, but I do mind if strangers can commandeer it. Signing is good enough for that, but encryption is better. A lot of things I'd like to do -- if I were experimenting with radio -- I don't want hacked.

> I imagine that HAM radio has an appeal as a retro technology

HAM as in radio operators clubs, sure. But SDR and other adjacent ideas are doing relatively well with younger people. Especially with rtl-sdr providing a really cheap entry point.

But the whole official HAM environment and exams? Meh... I made some antennas to catch local device broadcasts and satellite transmissions, but I'm not interested in the classic stuff.

At 20 I was interested in HAM radio. I went to a meeting at my university. Meetings were entirely five retired engineers talking the whole time, that was boring. There was one other student, who was the president. When I asked questions about radio and RF, they recommended I go to the library to look for books. I felt that I really didn’t need to spend an hour of my time to have them tell me that. I went to one other meeting, but I had school and work taking up my time and realized attending was not worth my time. I hope the community has improved since then, because it was not inviting to young people when I wanted to get involved.

I'm sorry to hear about you & GP. My experience was long, long ago, but I vividly remember everyone being super-supportive.

I had a similar experience. The local ham radio group was basically a boomers club, and somebody that was young in the 80s that stuck around.

Same experience here. I thought about getting into it about 7-8 years ago, but the local group was a clique of 70 year old retirees who all knew each other, complaining about their taxes and social security, and sharing their -- unfortunately stereotypical -- uh, political views that would be considered NSFW at most offices. Not exactly welcoming.

Yup, there's also a big problem with gatekeeping and what's "true" ham radio.

I wish it was different since you can do things with ham radio that are not possible without a license but then I look at the state of something like APRS that is still stuck in the '80s and it's depressing. The M17 project may change that and FT8 is starting to make inroads but I feel like the attitude you mention above keeps out people who would be taking it to new places and domains.

I think you are searching for explanations in the social realm while the truth is all to obvious.

Ham used to be about making connections with the guy sitting on the other end of the globe. That's a 100 times solved problem, much more reliably and with much less effort than ham could ever provide.

The second thing is ham is about making your own stuff. An AM/FM rig? With SSB? Your own amplifier? That used to be cool long ago when equipment was expensive. Today the equipment is all DSP, software defined. Little chance to lay your hands on, unless you come up with a new SDR like the chinese ATS25 or a malachite rival.

Ham is not dead, it just has a much reduced user base because of how things turned out to be.

Edited typos

Hmm - I got into Ham radio nearly 20 years ago as a teenager who loved making electronics. I couldn’t afford to buy the expensive things at the time, now I could probably buy a high-end high power rig and not really feel any financial hit.

But I haven’t because it’s still cool to make all those things, and I’m still struggling to get them to work, but am learning and feeling so amazingly satisfied when they do.

Also, you sort of can make all kinds of amazing SDR things yourself with even modest microcontrollers and DDS ICs. It’s just a hobby like any other, people still spend massive amounts of money and time on classic cars - they’ll never compete with or better a new Hyundai or something to get from A to B, but that’s missing the point.

This is my experience too. I'm a relatively young ham, and have found older hams have no interest in engaging with anyone other than their buddies. It's bizarre and sad.

There is an unreasonably large number of bigoted, racist, and generally rude "old guy" hams. I've been wondering about this for a while.

I got my novice license when the community was as you describe (helpful, welcoming of everyone) and then got my extra class in the 'modern' age. I have been told that SDRs are not "real" radios (as an example). I get the people who feel inadequate because technology has moved quickly and they don't understand it, but the rage they have at people who do is really quite surprising to me.

One theory I have is that these curmudgeons have 'run out' people who just got tired of hearing them on the air.

That said, in probably 20 years or so it is going to be great because they are all going to be dead and hopefully they will have taken their attitude with them.

Not sure why you are being downvoted. Truth hurts, I guess.

I hear about this a lot and am pretty sure it is true in many places but it's not that way everywhere. Just last night the mostly old folks on the local net were excited that someone was joining through some sort of gateway for digital modes. But I certainly know the gatekeeper types you're referring too and they exist in many hobbies that grew into popularity during earlier eras. I've heard in some places the younger crowd has formed their own clubs that focus more on digital modes, which is one way around the gatekeepers, but still sad because the hobby is at its heart about sharing experience, which they have decades of.

Was a ham and active at 20. Me and a few friends did lots of events. Nothing but really old people. Tried to get into it 20 years later. I was Still the youngest person by 20-30 years.

At this rate I figure in 25 years I will get into it again.

I got my son interested in short wave by first exposing him to North Korea’s English broadcast. Now he DX’s for all kinds of stuff on web SDRs. It’s a start.

Perhaps it's a matter of what area you live in. Since I've grown a gray beard, I've found almost everyone, including younger people, treat me with a level of deference and respect that they didn't before.

Multi generation household or live close by has been a thing even in city. At least in Uk I observed. The current Fb being old guy media precisely lived in this space. How many kids solely on fb for their peers.

That image is right.