> There is no scientific proof, e.g. RCT, that lockdowns work. Sure there is: ht...

angelzen · on Sept 29, 2021

That is not a RCT, that is comparing 2 data points selected after the results were known. The reason we have RCTs is that it is very easy to fool oneself, for example by filtering the experiment populations after the results are known. Remember when peer reviewed journals published experiments 'proving' ESP. https://www.cbc.ca/radio/ideas/psychologists-confront-imposs...

Re asymptomatic. Vaccinated people also spread the disease asymptomatically. I have seen zero rigorous studies showing how vaccinated asymptomatic spread compares with unvaccinated asymptomatic spread. No, picking 3 studies and linking data between them is not a replacement for a rigorous RCT. This is a particularly salient question as the biggest selling point of vaccines is that they reduce symptom severity.

judahmeek · on Sept 29, 2021

> I have seen zero rigorous studies showing how vaccinated asymptomatic spread compares with unvaccinated asymptomatic spread. [...] This is a particularly salient question as the biggest selling point of vaccines is that they reduce symptom severity.

And why are you linking spread & symptom severity?

angelzen · on Sept 30, 2021

Asymptomatic spreader: Person with an active infection that exhibits symptoms under their own personal threshold for self quarantine.

Core vaccines observable effect: Reduce manifestation of symptoms in infected persons.

It is possible that the vaccinated population has a larger rate and/or absolute numbers of people with no/low symptoms, aka 'asymptomatic spreaders'. It is also possible the other way around. I don't have hard data, nobody else seems to do.

Given that I don't actually know, I'm happy to refrain from speculation. I wish I could say the same from the 'any measure that may have some conceivable effect of reducing R0 must be mandated yesterday, or else you are personally responsible for the death of 4M people worldwide, and counting' crowd.

judahmeek · on Sept 30, 2021

> I wish I could say the same from the 'any measure that may have some conceivable effect of reducing R0 must be mandated yesterday, or else you are personally responsible for the death of 4M people worldwide, and counting' crowd.

>> This is a particularly salient question as the biggest selling point of vaccines is that they reduce symptom severity.

You mean the 'any measure that may have some conceivable effect of reducing symptom severity must be mandated yesterday, or else you are personally responsible for the death of 4M people worldwide, and counting' crowd.