Not fair. Very few laptops have serial port (I came up with GPD Micro PC) and maybe zero have modem, but some laptops have VGA port. Manufacturers know that VGA is still used but serial/modem aren't.
These days I suspect that something like a toughbook might be the only option for those sort of ports - although that GPD Micro PC does look quite fun.
Even 10-15 years ago, proper serial ports were becoming extremely rare, but there are times when you need a proper one.
Around that time we resorted to pc card/express card serial ports for occasions when USB to serial isn't good enough, although they were relatively expensive (3-4 times more than a USB serial dongle).
(The use case in that scenario was field engineers connecting to a very wide variety of odd equipment, like fire alarm panels and door entry systems, that sort of thing - USB dongles were massively inconsistent and unreliable - different dongles would be compatible/incompatible with different kit, was a right mess).
Obviously, these days, express card slots are also quite rare.
(The alternative is hauling out my old IBM T22, which I think maybe came with Win98... mostly still works apart from the battery).
Serial is less useful as you need a serial cable, so if you're going to carry a serial cable you might as well have one with USB on the end.
If you're going into an RJ45 serial connection (like I am at the moment), then an ideal laptop would have multiple RJ45s which could be used as either 10G or serial with a standard cat5 cable (not a specially wired one).
In Japanese market, some latest models support VGA but mostly by domestic brand. Some models are made by Clevo or whatever, so possibly also available on other markets. Here's a list: https://kakaku.com/pc/note-pc/itemlist.aspx?pdf_Spec047=1
I use a USB-Serial cable about once a week. I use an ethernet cable dozens of times a day.
Framework means in theory I could have a laptop (Well in theory) with say 4 ethernet / serial ports (switchable) and SDI, and that's far more useful to me than USB-C.
All the conferences I’ve been to had dongles readily available. Most used hdmi. Once I had hastily arranged breakout room that had VGA for the Beamer. I think this is a non-issue?
I always carry it with me but usually they have some sort of screen casting tech around already.
I do make it clear from the planning stages that they need to provide either one of 3 video inputs to their selected system (HDMI/DP/Screen casting) or they need to provide the computer that I can use to remote into my 13"(this is what they usually choose if they have older screens or projectors).
Then you'll take a dongle with you to that conference? Are you telling me you would always waste one of the 4? framework ports for Display Ouput X that you only use once a year?
ethernet and serial dongles are a requirement for emergency maintenance inside of datacenters. But of course not many people on hn spend time in datacenters anymare...
It's also needed for just making sure your internet is setup properly at home. Nobody cares about your speed test over wifi, but ISP's sometimes care if you can't get anywhere close to the rated speeds over Ethernet.
And of course that setup still requires Ethernet. Can't setup a wifi ap over wifi.
I'm curious as to how those work out. The modules are too short to fit a VGA, serial, or ethernet port and be flush with the laptop, but I think you could make one that extends further out and above, and would still have some benefits over a dongle.
> The modules are too short to fit a VGA, serial, or ethernet port and be flush with the laptop...
I'd be fine with a pop out style port for those ports. Won't be flush while in use, but I'd happily accept that to trade off having to carry around dongles. I'd rather pack and carry a small "stick" of these modules stacked together than a bundle of dongles.
I give it three months tops before someone starts selling a Pez-like "dispenser" that stores these modules. If the module bodies were designed to stick together though, that would spark joy in my inner Marie Kondo.
I would argue that a USB-C to VGA or HDMI cable is just a longer dongle. What if you take your USB-C-only laptop to a remote office to do a presentation, but your six foot USB-C to HDMI cable isn't long enough to reach the port because the projector is mounted in the ceiling and has a standard HDMI cable routed to the lectern? I'd much rather have the Framework with a HDMI port on the device than struggle with a common situation like that.
> What if you take your USB-C-only laptop to a remote office to do a presentation, but your six foot USB-C to HDMI cable isn't long enough to reach the port because the projector is mounted in the ceiling and has a standard HDMI cable routed to the lectern?
I personally really like the idea of what Framework is doing and wish more laptops followed suit, but that is a trivially solved problem you identified:
Of course it's trivially solved...with a dongle for your dongle! Or you could avoid dongle-ception by using a modular laptop like the Framework, or even a standard laptop with an HDMI port; even current-gen models from Dell, Lenovo, and HP still have it as an option especially on business-oriented machines. It all comes down to what your everyday requirements and tolerances allow for.
But again, the "dongle" argument is moot and not really a reason to either consider or avoid the Framework, for me at least. It's more about the device being open and repairable, and arguments about dongles are just attempts to justify one's current USB-C only device.
> It all comes down to what your everyday requirements and tolerances allow for
Agree completely. For me, Apple's USB-C only ports isn't an issue as everything I use plugs in via one or two TB3 cables (depending on personal vs work laptop) and daisy chains from the monitor or a TB3 dock so no dongles needed at all, but I still appreciate the design choice Framework made and think it's a good strategy.
I don't see how putting a cable in my backpack is going to be better than a dongle, and I'm certainly not going to a client for the first time then complain they don't have the right cable.
Not to mention the dongle supports several ports.
But you know what is better than either ?
The framework laptop solution of letting me configure the port I want before going to my client.
Theoretically you could emulate the signal with software/drivers given that USB-C has 24 pins. But there's actually display standards/signals built into USB-C so you "just have to" convert the digital signal to analog for VGA, but then it's no longer a stupid cable and more like a dongle.
Never have I seen a greater push against good design. The laptop ship with USBc if you didn't pick that up.
YOU CAN USE YOUR USBC TO VGA CABLE IF YOU WANT.
Or, if you don't want, you can grab A VGA module out of your drawer you store all your retired dongles in, slide it into your laptop, and there you have it.
This is not about using a module vs a cable. My comments refer to using a cable instead of a dongle. People make it seem as though using a dongle is the ONLY way to, for example, connect your MacBook Pro to a TV when you could just use a cable for it.
I was going to present from my phone to a projector the other day, but ( probably due the wear and tear of putting in the charger every day for several years) it was glitchy, so I asked if I could borrow a newer phone and got a few month old, still glitchy, so I had to use a PC anyway. The plan was that I was going to walk around with my phone during the presentation...
What I'm trying to say with this story is that for example monitor cable connectors are designed to fit tightly (vga and dmi even having screws) to give a constant signal, which you don't get from USB-C unless you stand still.
I carry a battery powered projector for this reason for talking with customers, providers or partners. I use standard airport suitcases for that.
It just makes no sense spending lots of time trying to adapt to obsolete infrastructure for every person you visit. If necessary I even have a blackboard and color chalks in my car and get away with them.
When I go to the meeting room, if I don't need to use my projector, great, but I will never use VGA, too much hassle.
- some conf room don't have a projector, but flat screens, a smart white boards or some remote conf setup that needs you to plug in, and/or no walls that fits the bill for projection
- some conf rooms don't have a place to put for your projector and get a good picture. Their is own the ceiling.
- unless you buy a very good one, some conf rooms won't have the light for your projector to be readable
- it addresses only the projector problem, not ethernet, sd card, usb A, etc
- a good projector is way more expensive that a few dongles, are easier to break, harder to replace if lost/broken or if you forget it at home
Not to say it's a bad idea to _also_ have a projector.
Some of my clients still have projectors with... vga ports.
Then you need ethernet and hdmi of course, regularly in the corporate world or at your friends house.
So yeah, dongle it is. USB-C dongle for sure, but still dongle.