It’s not “shaming”. It’s teaching history. Should they not teach kids about slavery, colonialism…?
This is especially relevant in Canada where they have been uncovering mass graves of indigenous children at Catholic schools designed to convert Natives:
I still haven't seen proposals actually banning the discussion of specific historical events in schools. Even all of the anti-CRT legislation being proposed in the US, puts restrictions on what kinds of judgements you can state about people of specific races living today, not on historical events.
Granted, a lot of the wording of those proposed laws is way too vague, like not causing white kids to feel guilt or anguish or whatever. Maybe certain historical facts will make white kids feel bad, regardless or any editorializing.
But if you have specific proposals or legislation that explicitly bans teaching certain historical facts, I'd like to see it.
It’s not really “leftist”. It’s just “american leftist” if anything.
As far as some traditional leftists go, this whole discussion is a distraction from looking at class problems: “poor white men” can’t be oppressed by being white or men, but can be oppressed by being poor. This seems a strange concept for some on the American side of the pond.
You hit the nail on the head. It is so frustrating that every single social movement has to be exclusively focused around some innate quality that cannot be changed. Sex, race, sexuality, everything except class. We spend all this time arguing amongst ourselves instead of collectively asking the ultra-rich why socialized healthcare is too expensive but spending 20 years destroying a country for no reason isn't.
I just don't get how an american leftist can see every single fortune 500 company paying lip service to every single american leftist cause and not wonder if maybe something else is going on. And sure, I'm well aware that it's all meaningless PR maneuvers to curry favor among the public. But I firmly believe that these companies avoid any sort of class-based issue like the plague because that might lead to questions about why corporations can make so much money and pay so little in tax while the rest of us make peanuts and are forced to give the government 1/3 of it.
You didn’t answer my questions. Are you suggesting we don’t teach those very real historical facts I mentioned because some sensitive racists may take it personally? Since when is that a reason to distort the truth?
Edit: HackerNews has decided to throttle me because I’m not a hivemind reactionary. I’m really close to highlighting what’s really going on in this “community” in a more public forum dang.
Why do you have to make random threats towards website moderators when trying to explain your point of view? Seems like you're being disingenuous and you're not coming to this discussion with the ability to stop yourself and see things from other points of view.
The “other point of view” is white supremacy (aka the only people in the world concerned with “critical race theory”). The mods not only allow white supremacy on this site, they censor those who complain about it!
I literally got downvoted and throttled for saying slavery was real and talking about the very real genocide of Native children in Canada. What’s next, Holocaust denial?
You're no doubt getting downvoted because you're posting tons of flamewar comments, which is not what this site is for, regardless of how right you are or feel you are, and regardless of your views.
Your account is getting throttled because it's rate-limited. We rate limit accounts when they post too many low-quality comments too quickly and/or get involved in flamewars. I haven't checked the logs to see when your account got rate-limited but it certainly wasn't today, and it has zero to do with your ideology or your views.
You're likely being throttled because of the number of posts you're making, as well as some sort of auto-moderator system where if someone gets downvoted a lot in a short time, the system thinks you're a spammer and throttles you.
As to why you're being downvoted I can only hazard a guess - You're likely being downvoted because you're making accusations using words that have very strong meaning and implication behind their use, and don't fit well with this discussion.
Saying the mods only allow white supremacy on this website is laughable. There's no way for you to prove this - I'd like to see you try. If there was actually white supremacy in this group, we wouldn't have such a diverse group of people (intellectually, physically, culturally, geographically, etc) to come here to discuss (in most cases) tech news related to readers' fields - it's part of why the internet is as popular as it is.
People who are regular contributors and commenters to the Hacker News forum usually bring more to the table than simple name-calling and insult-hurling. There's also wonderful ideas you can try yourself like critical thinking, opening your mind to other opinions, stopping yourself before making baseless accusations, etc.! It's fun.
There’s nothing “fun” about this site. It’s the embodiment of the worst of our industry. It’s literally spewing AM radio quality right wing propaganda. I don’t think the people here are as intellectually curious as you claim.
No personal attacks, please, regardless of how wrong someone is or you feel they are. You crossed that line not only with this comment, but also upthread ("you can try yourself like critical thinking").
Edit: it looks like your account has been using this site primarily for ideological battle. That's against the rules (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html), and when an account is using HN primarily for that, that's the line at which we ban them (https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...). I'm not going to ban you for this right now because we haven't warned you before, but please review the guidelines and use HN in the intended spirit going forward.
We're trying to avoid having this site be engulfed by the hell of ideological flames and burning itself to a crisp. Scorched earth is not interesting, and it's the default outcome on the internet. We're trying to stave it off here.
All parent talked about was teaching facts and you're the one equating that with some form of shaming and oppression, for which you have demonstrated no evidence other than that said facts are indeed taught.
It looks like your account has been using this site primarily for ideological battle. That's against the rules (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html), and when an account is using HN primarily for that, that's the line at which we ban them (https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...). I'm not going to ban you for this right now because we haven't warned you before, but please review the guidelines and use HN in the intended spirit going forward.
I legitimately am not sure how my posts in this have been "flamewar comments", so I guess out of an abundance of caution I will just refrain from ever discussing this topic here.
I wasn't just talking about your posts to this thread, but to HN in general. That's why I wrote "
you've done it a lot and we've asked you many times not to".
That kind of pattern is clearly a problem, especially since we only see a sample of the things any regular user posts. Would you mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart? We'd be grateful. I know it's not easy, but if we're to have the sort of forum we're trying for here, all of us need to work on our habits of how we engage with other commenters.
As for this thread, your comment that I replied to was obviously a snarky battle comment, not genuinely interested in what the other person had to say or why they might hold the view they do. That's not curious conversation.
One sign of curious conversation as opposed to internet battle is that people remain able to relate to each other across their differences. If the only way you're able to relate to the other commenter is as an enemy to be defeated, you're not really engaging out of curiosity. We're looking for curiosity-driven conversation here. There are other places to do battle.
These points hardly apply to just you, of course - the problems are all over the place, especially in threads like this. But as the guidelines say: "Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive."
Ok, fair enough. I don't contend I didn't deserve admonishment in any other instances. It would seem I should just stay out of any thread that appears to be descending into flamewar territory. I will try to be more cognizant of that.
We've banned this account for repeatedly posting flamewar comments and unsubstantive comments to HN. It's not what this site is for. Using the site primarily for ideological battle is also not allowed, regardless of which ideology you're battling for or against.
I agree with you on that note. We do need to know which people perpetrated the horrific acts and for what justifications they had at the time - if only to ensure it doesn't happen again, no matter what race.
