do you really think if the sh*t hit the fan? the entire BTC network and the internet at large would still be working for you to transfer these units around?
this to me is where the comparison to gold falls off. i can hold physical gold and silver and trade it at will even without power, pricing updates, etc. this does not apply to crypto. considering cutting internet access is now a normal thing during unrest, being able to pay with anything that is not physical, probably wont work out.
If the global internet goes down and stays down, then I think it's safe to say that global civilization is permanently collapsing, in which case billions of people are going to die in the resulting famine and the survivors probably won't be able to maintain enough technology to survive long term as climate change continues to snowball.
In this scenario, yeah bitcoin is worthless. But so is gold. The only thing worth stockpiling for this scenario is brass and lead (and a strong local community of other preppers who can organize into a new micro state after the collapse). And even then, you have to ask if the reward of surviving is even worth the cost of prepping.
it wouldn't even take a global internet shortage, just your country to go offline, how you gonna pay someone to get you out(keep you safe, etc) if you cant transfer your crypto to them? A few ounces of gold on the other hand will take you anywhere you want to go. Crypto is far from a safe hedge in any type of crazy event.
you see, gold can still be traded without power and internet, as could cash or really anything physical, as the value is assigned by those trading it at that time for whatever use they have but BTC is totally useless, toilet paper would literally have more value. brass/lead(killing people) isn't the only way to survive.
just your country to go offline, how you gonna pay someone to get you out(keep you safe, etc).... A few ounces of gold on the other hand will take you anywhere you want to go
People keep using that argument about gold, but is it really realistic? If the SHTF and the USA goes dark for whatever reason, how good is gold really going to be?
First, how does someone know you're really giving them pure gold and not some worthless alloy that looks and feels like gold?
Second, how much is gold going to be worth? Will a gold bar buy you a house, or a loaf of bread? (probably not a good example, after a month or so, houses will probably be less valuable than food)
And without any government to enforce a stable market, how will you even trade safely when the guy who has all the stuff you want can just hit you over the head and take your gold and whatever other possessions you may have with you?
Eventually these things would be sorted out by forming some sort of communal groups for protection and resource gathering, and barter prices will eventually be set, but will the guy with the most gold be valuable, or the guy with real survival skills (or at least some more immediately usable possessions like weapons, farming tools, etc)?
For the short term disruptions that are far more likely (like a regional power outage), cash is probably going to be just as good or better than gold because it's got an accepted value and everyone knows what it is (product values may rise, but in a society that's not used to using gold as currency with infrastructure to do so, it's a lot easier to sell a loaf of bread for $60 than for a gram of gold)
gold was just an example used, because the BTC fans like to compare the two. but you are right, gold isnt overly tradable either, since it has very little day to day use. my point was just that BTC would still be useless as it cant be traded without an internet, miners, etc.
I don't particularly believe BTC is the messiah, but if the internet in your country goes down, how do you imagine you're going to get the money in your bank account? You might rush to an ATM before they get swarmed, but you're definitely not withdrawing all your money and transferring won't be an option.
Right, because gold is really going to help when there are no police going around arresting thieves and murderers. I'm sure the guy who tells you he can get you out is not going to take your gold and do nothing to get you out, assuming he doesn't just kill you and take your gold, shoes, weapons, and whatever other supplies you are carrying.
Get real. When governments collapse gold is not even remotely as useful as people seem to assume. There is no hedge against a failure of civilization. When things break down like that, you need to think on your feet and start organizing people (or joining up with a group someone else organized) to stand guard against the roving gangs of murderers, rapists, and thieves. "Trade" beyond the level of barter involving food, fuel, medicine, and weapons does not enter the picture until some new form of government can be established and some semblance of order is restored.
Guns, ammo, and gold aren’t bad choices to hoard for an end of the world situation, but if you want to make out like a bandit when the shit hits the fan just stockpile spices - when people start having to eat squirrels they’re going to want some pepper :-)
It doesn't need to be usable through the crisis to still have value. Holding the private keys will still help preserve some of your wealth through to the other side so you don't have to start over with nothing.
You can flee with some gold, but I'd expect that to all be taken from you by the border guards or smugglers you have to pay off to get out. They can't take your bitcoin if they don't know you have it.
Genuinely curious if you think the Bitcoin network (or any other crypto network) would be restarted after such a crisis and if anyone holding non-crypto assets would be interested in trading them for crypto post-crisis?
It doesn't take anything this drastic. All it takes is the country you are in deciding to cut off access. This has happened in various unstable countries many times over the last decade so it's not unprecedented.
The very time you would need something more stable than a currency is the time when the local telecom infrastructure would mean you can't transfer bitcoin.
The people who say that bitcoin is going to be useful when "shit hits the fan" have a very very specific definition of shit hitting the fan that is just so unrealistic.
...why would I want to accept Bitcoin in that case? Pretty sure I am going to want either some other country's currency -- because I still need to buy imported food or fuel or whatever -- or things have gotten so bad that I no longer hand reliable enough Internet service to make use of Bitcoin.
Because Bitcoin has not experienced the same inflation as USD? I'm not sure what point you're trying to argue honestly.
> Pretty sure I am going to want either some other country's currency -- because I still need to buy imported food or fuel or whatever
Explain why, just saying you want Euros or something isn't a very convincing argument. Importing cash Euros is non trivial, and good luck finding banks and credit cards that let you transact in them.
You really think the entire world would shut off the internet?
It is much harder to transport gold and silver, and those can be easily confiscated. A mnemonic seed can be stored in your head, and you can add a passphrase as a salt on top of that to create an infinite number of permutations, each being their own wallet, and provide just one of those if under duress.
this to me is where the comparison to gold falls off. i can hold physical gold and silver and trade it at will even without power, pricing updates, etc. this does not apply to crypto. considering cutting internet access is now a normal thing during unrest, being able to pay with anything that is not physical, probably wont work out.