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I think "being productive" vs. "time well spent" and "doing things that really matter" is a false dichotomy. It doesn't have to be this way. I know that's a statement from a position of privilege— not every has a job where they can feel like they are in a flow state while working, but do you have any side projects or hobbies where you feel both productive and feel like it's time well spent?

Coming to this pretty late, but I've been fascinated with the concept of flow recently, which researcher Mihaly Csikszentmihaly described as:

  “The best moments in our lives are not the passive, receptive, relaxing times . . . The best moments usually occur if a person’s body or mind is stretched to its limits in a voluntary effort to accomplish something difficult and worthwhile”
Again, not everyone is in a position to do this, but I think we should de-emphasize number of hours spent in "work mode" albeit inefficiently or without great focus or working on things that aren't super important and more time seeking deep focus and then time completely off to relax, recharge and let ideas background process/percolate.


Your viewpoint still dismisses one of the best categories of "time wasting"/"things that really matter": time spent socializing with friends and family.

There have been a few studies that were pointing out people in Southern Italy live very long and happy lives (I think happiness was self-reported), despite living in relative poverty compared to developed countries. Sun + healthy diets + lots and lots of intense social interactions with family and close friends.


> I think happiness was self-reported

Isn’t that implied? How else can you measure happiness aside from someone telling you they’re happy?

Somewhat of a genuine question — curious if studies/surveys use some other way to measure happiness.


I did see one such study that looked at emotional expressions/body language rated on a Joy-Sadness Display Scale by 5 trained observers in addition to self-reported measures: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/233265431_Experienc...

Of course, this wouldn't really work for a longitudinal study.


Personally I consider time with friends and family productive time and most definitely time well spent, but surely you have noticed that even these moments can stretch out into unproductivity - maybe some members of the family or friend group want to go home and spend their time on their own things, so a little planning is useful even for family/friends/relaxation.

Productive usage of my time means I am not doing simple things the hard way, that I manage my attention, and that I spend time on things that I care about, not that I stop caring about my family.


That's funny of you to say.

Extending my example from above, American dining habits are: you stay in the restaurant for about as much time as what you need to eat/drink, then you go away (maybe gently nudged by staff to get out if you stop ordering something after 1 hour or so). Italian dining habits are: you go to dinner and you stay there until everyone has discussed about everything they wanted to discuss, no matter how long that takes.

I imagine for someone from the Italian culture your perspective would seem completely alien.

And regarding family members or friend that want to leave, surely everyone is mature enough to just get up and go when they have to. Why do you need to manage that for them?


Regarding my family/friends, I was talking about managing myself, my own time, not them - in this particular case I meant that I could predict when I can be home to do my own things, for example.

My perspective never disallowed me from staying at the table for hours until everyone was saturated with friendly banter. I spent many months in Italy, Croatia, Spain, Georgia, Poland and elsewhere doing just that, and I consider it time spent productively - relaxation and socialization is important to me.


> + lots and lots of intense social interactions with family and close friends.

As an introvert, I find “lots and lots of intense social interactions” draining (by definition).

Granted, I do enjoy hanging out with friends and family, but often feel drained a bit afterwards.

Of course, I’m not advocating being a loner. I wouldn’t like that either.

My main point is, I wonder if extroverts — or those that are energized from intense social interactions — are more destined to be happy vs. introverts.


> I wonder if extroverts — or those that are energized from intense social interactions — are more destined to be happy vs. introverts.

Sadly for introverts, that seems to be the case.

Source: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/quiet-disadvantag...


> My main point is, I wonder if extroverts — or those that are energized from intense social interactions — are more destined to be happy vs. introverts.

I don't know. I'll actually extend your question to its extreme:

Does anyone know what the evolutionary advantage of being an introverted individual in a very social species is?


I expect introverted individuals playing on their own in the wilds (or "hunting") are nature's answers for societal insurance. If some catastrophes strike at the tribes/HG bands' main encampments, some cultural memory and genetic diversity persist for the next band to reclaim that site.

After all, humanity natural niche is persistence hunting and gathering-scavenging.

And of course, hunting itself took a long time to do, especially if you are doing persistence hunting with primitive tools and maybe fire. A long time to be lonely and tolerating it.


The long life thing heavily correlates with the lack of quality in record keeping.


In Italy? Italy's not a third world country... Do you have any proof for that?


I think this might be what parent is referring to: https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday/audio/20187...

Although as far as I can see, the paper has not been peer reviewed yet (but it's also quite old)


Yeah, but I wasn't talking about isolated cases and small regions and centenarians. I'm talking about whole countries and big regions:

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistical-atlas/gis/viewer/?...

If you go strictly by the numbers, Scandinavia or Germany should be at the top: higher GDP, higher salaries, higher HDI (maybe even quite far away at the top).

Yet that doesn't happen: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/-/E...

The top 5 regions in the EU for life expectancy, both male and female, are in Southern Europe.


Sorry, I suspect sharing will just lead to an argument over perceived insults I don't intend. Consider my original comment a friendly warning. Should you think it's worth following up on, I think you'll find it easy to find evidence. If you don't, that's okay too.


Ok, similar question for Spain or Greece. Spain and Greece both aren't super rich by developed country standards and yet their life expectancies are very high.

Do you think they're all doing it to piss off richer countries? :-)




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