It’s worth thinking about how we measure how “good” a life is and if that is superficial and too much influenced by fashion. For example the cliche is go travelling or get rich starting a business. “I raised kids” doesn’t have the same boastworthyness in a lot of circles, but arguably it’s more interesting. Or maybe not. What’s the life well lived metric?
I grew up Christian, and among Christian young people a common question was "What's God's plan for my life?"
In that context, I came across Micah 6:8 which spells it out about as plainly as you'll find anywhere:
"He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?"
That seems like a standard that everyone can get behind. It gives you a standard by which to measure how well you're living, but your options remain open to do whatever you want as long as you do it justly, kindly, and humbly.
Thanks for your comment. I have enjoyed reading through these comments but I can't consider my own 'what could have been' without considering that which is outside of my self, namely God. My own beliefs do not see this life as the end. Therefore my present actions are shaped by my future hopes. I hope some day to be rewarded by God for my actions today. This seems more important to me than thinking about how my past actions may have made me more successful today. Many of the great moments in history were defined by men and woman giving up their lives for what they hoped for in the future. Not what they hoped would have happened in the past.
In my mental model it's implied, since people are the image of God and so being humble towards them is being humble towards God (and I'm not sure there's a context where humility exists independently of other people).
Humility is also useful when alone. I think X is true but let me double check can easily save your life irrespective of a belief in god or the presence of other people. Using a checklist before flying for example is an important recognition of your imperfection. Measure twice cut once is again the same idea.
Yes, something along this line occurred to me after posting, but I'd agree with you. Integrity is also arguably a case where humility can come into play even when people don't notice.
The idea is that everyone has unifying motivations, often in a higher power, where they derive their personal sense of morality from. Whether religion, family, tradition, survival, knowledge, the invisible hand of the market, a love of humanity or life for its own sake, sheer pleasure, whatever.
The point is that regardless of the original intent of the Judeo-Christian text, it seems an admirable enough message that can be recontextualized easily enough to fit those of different ethical and theological viewpoints on this forum. No hair-splitting or holy wars necessary.
The allusion to Alcoholics Anonymous is that the “acknowledging a higher power” step, while commonly assumed as pushing crypto-Christianity, can be reinterpreted by each individual participant as their own unifying motivator.
The paradox of twelve steps is that you are supposed to consider yourself at powerless and submit to your higher power yet at the same time every failing is only down to you and resets all progress.
I make no claims about the program as a whole, I was just dropping a reference to another situation where people ascribe religiosity to a reference to god or higher power that could easily be secularized, if preferred, for the sake of personal development.
The Christian POV is basically, "it doesn't matter how bad your life is because it will be great in the after life". In other words the good parts are ahead, period.
But if you don't believe then there is no guaranteed good parts ahead and the line above has no meaning.
I recently became acquainted with the teachings of Epicurus. He advocated living a simple life of simple pleasures surrounded by friends. It's almost a truism that seeking fame and fortune is a route to unhappiness. Not necessarily because these are bad things, but because the desires that drive these choices seem to be insatiable.
For me, (very) modest fortune and essentially zero fame seems to be the ideal situation. Like a paid off house, a nest egg that throws off $10K/month, and only family/friends know who I am.
My goals are about the same, and sometimes I worry whether they're ambitious enough. But they really are. It takes a very particular reference frame to make them "simple" or "modest." $120k is a 90th percentile income! And that's among people working full time for it.
The nice thing about a culture that exalts “I raised kids and they turned out well” as a “life well lived metric” is that its broadly accessible. You can be born below average in intelligence and creativity and still be a good dad or mom, participate in local civic organizations, etc.
That life isn’t for everyone, and it doesn’t work out for everyone. But it’s also worth considering the average person. The average person isn’t going to be professionally successful, or travel the world, or do anything significant. But they can raise kids who probably love them and come to thanksgiving, etc. I think our modern ways of thinking are leaving the typical person behind.
I know of a few cases where this has happened. In one case the parents were abusive, so this is on them. The other case was great parents and an immature youth. With time that youth will mature and come around when he recognizes the goodness in his parents. In the end, it’s success if you raise your kids with love.
I wish I was happy. And I think some hard-to-treat mental illness is preventing my day-to-day happiness.
When I feel envious of others, it's not only that they're rich and they travel a lot. They also have friends. They might even have a family they care about. They have hobbies and they have _something_ to do. A lot of them say they have problems with mental health, but you can't film a year-long depressive episode and upload it to YouTube, so I have to take their word for it. And in truth I don't. The world seems clean-split between people who have everything and people who have it even harder than me, and I always just feel alone in this middle ground, where I have all the material elements to be healthy and happy but I can't put them together.
I have many things other people want, but I never find myself sitting back and saying "I'm glad I have this." I always want things I can't have, and it hurts a lot.
I feel like i've been in your shoes, in a past life. I've come to believe that happiness is like the horizon, or the sunset. It's a fuzzy concept, which disappears if you go too close to it.
The horizon is not a place, and the sunset is not a moment. They are aggregate phenomena. You can't set them as targets, because they don't exist physically. You can observe them as composite entities, emerging in the right context.
Such is happiness. You can't set it as an objective, because it doesn't exist. And chasing it directly will only cause you suffering. Instead, try to set smaller goals, and let it emerge on its own.
Take care of your physical health. Take care of your relationships. Allocate time, not much, but regularly, for activities that you like (hobbies). Widen your intellectual horizons, e.g. by reading or listening to diverse people. Get better at what you do professionally. Try to find some form of meditation that works for you.
Occasionally, try writing long, thoughtful comments on forums :)
Try to do these without looking too far into it; just trust the process. And at some point, you'll have the revelation "man, it's been quite some time since i felt unhappy!"
> I have all the material elements to be healthy and happy but I can't put them together.
I often have this same thought. I tend to try and phrase it as "I'm learning to put them together". I don't believe that we can't.
> I have many things other people want, but I never find myself sitting back and saying "I'm glad I have this." I always want things I can't have, and it hurts a lot.
There is one quick choice you have the power to make here which might help, which is to choose to be grateful about the things you do have.
And it's not mutually exclusive. I'm not saying you'll immediately stop striving for more. But while engaging in that striving (which is hard to stop!), you can choose, also, to notice and be thankful for the small things you do already have.
Recognise throughout the day the small things that could make you feel grateful if you let them. Just acknowledge those things briefly and try to build a small habit around that way of thinking.
> The world seems clean-split between people who have everything and people who have it even harder than me, and I always just feel alone in this middle ground, where I have all the material elements to be healthy and happy but I can't put them together.
You're not as alone as you think, because this just resonated like I can't even explain.
> The world seems clean-split between people who have everything and people who have it even harder than me, and I always just feel alone in this middle ground, where I have all the material elements to be healthy
You're not alone, there's plenty of people who prioritized career over all else and 10-15 years ended up with plenty of money but otherwise no life.
Raising kids is the "default" choice. More than 50% of people do it. Getting rich or traveling for your life are much rarer, hence more interesting
Edit: ah yes downvotes. Think about it this way. You meet someone with 6 fingers on each hand, kinda interesting right? Minutes later you meet someone with 5 fingers, also interesting?
Having kids? Probably not. Raising them? Probably yes. Same with fingers: having them is more interesting if they can do something novel with them (say, play an instrument). But this being HN, I know plenty of people that travel a lot (no idea if that’s typical).
I mean that's just straight-up asking for the purpose of life: You can't possibly give a rational logical answer. It's (quite beautifully in my opinion) one of those questions that everybody can only answer for themselves.
Life is like a long mountain trail in a great migration. There are criss-crossing paths everywhere, and you have to decide which to take. The goal is to climb until you reach the summit. There'll always be valleys and hills, so you won't always be going up. But each step you take forward, and each foot higher in elevation, is your life getting better. If you can say that most of the time you were moving forward and higher, to me that's a well-lived life.
Could you have taken a shorter path and gotten there faster? Sure! But the longer you're on the path, the more time you have to smell the flowers, listen to the birds sing, see the trees swaying in the wind. Maybe you're content to stay exactly where you are. But I think most of us should keep climbing, because there's always new trails to see. Who cares how we get there as long as we keep going up.
