But you're doing the thing. The tactic that you agree is bothersome.
Edit: I agree that one could incorporate some CRT into their worldview without becoming insufferable, in fact I think lots of normal people have without calling it that. That said, there are a lot of true believers out there, that's who I was talking about.
okay, well since the comment I initially replied to has been edited entirely post hoc to represent an entirely different tenor than what you originally replied with, I guess I need to edit mine as well:
No, I'm not doing that right now, I am trying to understand your framing of CRT and where your issues lie with it. It would seem those issues lie with how certain people argue CRT, not CRT itself.
What stands in your way other than being faced with possible objections to, and responses in kind to whatever your critiques may be? Objections and responses that-I would boldly say-are not stopping you from making said critiques, or rather, they hold no enforceable power that precludes you or anyone from making rebuttals of your own.
They are just that, objections and responses. Which you are free to entertain or not, attempt to unpack and understand or not, respond to with better critiques, objections, observations and rebuttals of your own...or not. But you're not being prevented from making them by anyone or anything short of I suppose committing some sort of crime in order to make that point (that's just an extreme example to stretch the metaphor).
This is the form and function of debate, it is a crucible that boils away impurities of all manner and dialect (for anyone who may be thinking they've heard this one before, yes, I absolutely stole this from an episode of Star Trek).
If you feel you are being stopped from doing any of this, might I ask why and how you have been completely prevented and kept from expressing yourself?
Alright, here's my substantive criticism of how CRT affects various groups in practice (not doxxing my membership in any of these groups):
Elite coastal white: Absolutely not threatened. Beneficiary of the system and knows how to navigate all of the social codes.
Less elite or poor white: Takes the bullet that was aimed at the elite white.
Asian: Scores way too high on tests for their % of the population and this is a problem for a worldview that cares about what % of college slots go to which races
Professional class black or latin: Does great, huge beneficiary of CRT activism
Working class black or latin: Invisible and accidentally hurt despite good intentions. CRT proponents tried to pass a referendum legalizing racial discrimination in hiring in California this year, which would have helped professional class POC and probably hurt this class. Fortunately it failed.
EDIT: I removed some cattiness above. Not trying to pull the rug out from under you but I'm rate-limited and wanted to focus on my actual points. I don't think I'm a caricature of 'unwoke' person who never thought about or dealt with these things before.
We just went through a mini-version of it: the go-to move is that any criticism is immediately labelled as closet white supremacy.
Is that what you truly believe I did above? That I am labeling you, and think you to be a white supremacist?
If so then allow me to be clear for a moment: I have literally no way of knowing if you're a white supremacist. I have no way of knowing if you're not actually an armada of ants collectively working to actuate the keys of a mechanical keyboard or a Boltzmann brain sending these messages through some strange and baffling form of quantum entanglement. What I am trying to expose is the very real reality that these are uncomfortable conversations, that's just intrinsic to this topic and the climate we are in.
This is fine. It is fine to admit being uncomfortable trying to process where we are, how we got here, and how we got out of it.
But one has to start by looking that beast in the face first in order to reckon with it. For some, that uncomfort gets unwittingly channeled into anger and frustration and they might not even know why or even realize it, but that can be focused, and turned into knowledge and wisdom on the issues. One's just gotta start, like I said: see it for what it is, and working from there.
If you took that to be me associating you with white supremacy, I'll try to find other ways of seeking out clarity from people next time.
> Is that what you truly believe I did above? That I am labeling you, and think you to be a white supremacist?
Looked like it to me, an uninvolved curious third party.
> the very real reality that these are uncomfortable conversations
Huh, that's what the poster that you replied to said. Weird that you got all up in their grill about it.
Let me just attempt to paraphrase the initiating series of comments, seeking only to illustrate how your comments looked to me, not attempting to do justice to the full meaning of each commenter.
nickff > advice on how the manager should do power dynamics
saagarjha > "strange power dynamic" [followed by lots of savvy commentary, irrelevant to my point here]
free_rms > CRT is all about power dynamics. That's the point. I find it exhausting, but me being exhausted is not the point, the point is that it's about power. [bit of a reductionist take on the parent comment, but probably correct?]
dvtrn > Are you exhausted because, as a beneficiary of oppression, you'd rather the oppression continue? Or is it because you're just too lazy to care about fairness?
free_rms > See, I dunno where you got that I'm an oppressor, where did this threat come from?
Yikes! And free_rms didn't even say that your implication that she/he is an oppressor was wrong, nor were they defensive about it. They just said that it's exhausting! I mean, it would be! Who would not be exhausted by that, whether or not it's a fair accusation!
I mean... now, at the bottom of this thread, you imply that you were seeking to know more, and not trying to imply that the exhaustion is evidence of being a bad person. Okay, I believe you, and nothing in your first comment belies that reading (though some of the intervening comments, hmn not so sure). But I don't think it's the natural read of what you said, at least it wasn't the natural read for me.
Me personally, btw, I dunno what CRT is, so in my privileged ignorance (enabled, of course, by my general white privilege) I'm immune to the exhaustion. I read this whole thread to see if I could learn something useful. Not so far, though I don't regret the time spent.
I dunno, is this helpful? Maybe I'm not being helpful.
Edit: I agree that one could incorporate some CRT into their worldview without becoming insufferable, in fact I think lots of normal people have without calling it that. That said, there are a lot of true believers out there, that's who I was talking about.