Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

That's not entirely true. Windows ARM64 can execute natively on the M1 (through QEMU for hardware emulation, but the instructions execute natively). Intel/AMD could produce an ARM processor that could find a market. They also have a close partnership with Microsoft and I have to believe there would be a path forward there. They could also target Linux.

I haven't seen enough evidence yet though that ARM is the reason M1 performs so efficiently. It may just be the fact that it is on a cutting edge 5nm process with a SoC design. I'm not even sure if the PC/Windows market would adopt such a chip since it lacks upgradability. It's really nice to be able to swap out RAM and/or GPU. Heck even AMD has been retaining backwards compatability with older motherboards since it's been one one socket for a while.

I think for laptops/mobile this makes a lot of sense. For a desktop though I honestly prefer AMD's latest Ryzen Zen 3 chips.



> It may just be the fact that it is on a cutting edge 5nm process with a SoC design.

Yup. It's fast because it's got short distances to memory and everything else. Shorten the wire to memory cells and not only can you make signaling faster and run the memory at faster clock speed but you can do it with less accessory hardware for signal conditioning and error correction, which saves complexity and power. Using shorter paths to memory also lets you use lower voltages, which means less waste heat and less need to spend effort on cooling and overall power savings for the chip.

Shortening the wire also lowers latency between all the various on board devices, so communicating everywhere is faster.

There's a reason that manufacturers used to be able to "speed" up a chip by just doing a die shrink - photographically reducing chip masks to make them smaller, which also made them faster with relatively small amounts of work.

As the late Adm. Grace Hopper put it, there are ever so many picoseconds between the two ends of a wire.


> Shortening the wire also lowers latency between all the various on board devices, so communicating everywhere is faster.

A maximum of a few nanoseconds. Not much in comparison to an overall memory system latency.

> Shorten the wire to memory cells and not only can you make signaling faster and run the memory at faster clock speed but you can do it with less accessory hardware for signal conditioning and error correction, which saves complexity and power.

You cannot run away from that with just shorter PCB distance. The circuitry for link training is mandated by the standard.

You will need a redesigned memory standard for that.


Until the late 90s on-chip wire delays were something we just didn't care much about speed was limited by gate capacitance - we got speedups when we shrunk the gate sizes on transistors - after the mid 90s RC delays in wires started to matter (not speed of light delays, how fast you can shuffle electrons in there to fill up the C) soon after it got worse because wire RC delays don't scale perfectly with shrinks because of edge effects - this was addressed in a number of ways, high speed systems reduced the R by switching from Al wires to Cu, tools got better able to model those delays and synthesize and do layout at (almost) the same time


Intel/AMD could produce an ARM processor that could find a market.

Intel did have an ARM processor line, and it did have a market. They acquired the StrongARM line from Digital Equipment and evolved it into the XScale line. What Intel didn't want was for something to eat into it's x86 market, and Windows/ARM didn't exist. So they evolved ARM in a different direction than Apple later did. It was very successful in the high-performance embedded market.


"It was very successful in the high-performance embedded market."

As long as you don't define that market as "billions of mobile smartphones".

I remember StrongArms in PDAs back in the early 2000s.

They should have had ready processors for the smartphone, but IIRC they kept pushing x86 on phones.


Fair point. I forgot about the PXA line. I suspect, however, more of the IOP & IXP embedded processors were sold.


>AMD could produce an ARM processor that could find a market.

They did and it couldn't find a market.


IIRC the chip they sort-of released was originally meant for Amazon, but missed targets wildly, leading Amazon to doing one on their own.

Lisa Su put the kibosh on K12 for focus reasons, given how well Zen turned out it was the right call at least for now.


> it lacks upgradability. It's really nice to be able to swap out RAM and/or GPU.

Honestly, it doesn't. You just swap it for a new one and sell the old one.

When you have 8GB, you pay another 8GB and end up with 16.

In this case, you just sell you SoC with 8GB, and but another SoC with 16GB. You'll only pay out the difference.

This is pretty much how you upgrade a relatively recent phone works too.


Depreciation means you won't pay out only the difference, in most cases.


This is kinda where Apple products thrive. They drop in price very little, and have, ultimately, long lives.

iPhone 7s and iPhone 8s are still great low-end devices, and they reach the right market by being resold by people getting a newer one.

I don't see why M1 laptops would be an exception.




Consider applying for YC's Fall 2026 batch! Applications are open till July 27.

Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: