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People lived that way in the 19th century. A social collapse is the protracted loss of law and order.


Take a look at this, you'll see the extend that a harsh winter can have: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_1998_North_American_ic...

"16,000 Canadian Forces personnel deployed, 12,000 in Quebec and 4,000 in Ontario at the height of the crisis."

Many people were left without electricity, heating and even food. Alarms were disabled, police couldn't reach some neighborhoods and there was a lot of crime. Law and order were put on hold, until the army got to us.


Law and order were put on hold, until the army got to us.

I'm Canadian, grew up in the area, was living in BC during the ice storm, and returned soon thereafter.

No one I know would describe it this way. I've never heard the ice storm described this way.

Yes, many people were without services for extended periods of time. Yes, the Army was required to clear roads, removed downed trees, and was in play to help calm the public.

Yet "Law and order" on hold, paints a picture I do not believe as accurate. I sounds as if hoodlums and criminals were running rampant in the streets. Can you find any news articles, any info collaborating this, or some variation?

Certainly, I know of many people with snowmobiles, which made trips to get supplies and so forth for neighbours. I also know stories of people sharing, helping their neighbours.

I've been without power for 2 weeks where I live, due to a massive windstorm, and living in a very rural location.

Where I grew up, in the mid/late 1970s, our entire county's substation blew up, when covered with one of the largest snowfalls of the century (snow was literally to the top of telephone poles, I recall my father having to climb out of a second story window, and dig a path so we could get out of the back door and start digging out...).

The storm was already big, but it was coupled with lake effect snow in my area. Needless to say, it took weeks to get power back, clear the roads of 10+ feet of snow, which fell over a few days.

In none of these cases, did everything break down. People just stuck together.

NOTE: I fully agree that eventually, things will break down. If people have no food, and there is no food available, people will ensure they have food.

But none of these events seem quite like this.

Even a city apartment often has more than a week of something to eat. Even if it's old lima beans. :P


> Can you find any news articles, any info collaborating this, or some variation?

The book A Paradise Built in Hell by Rebecca Solnit examines several disasters over several decades:

* https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/301070/a-paradise-b...

* http://rebeccasolnit.net/book/a-paradise-built-in-hell/

The general findings seem to be that communities tend to come together. The 'societal collapse' scenarios are generally urban myths.


Here is what I found online on the topic. https://www.erudit.org/fr/revues/crimino/2003-v36-n1-crimino... (French, translated via DeepL)

In short, increases of crimes and then declines of crimes once the army is deployed.

> "Analyses indicate that there is a direct effect of increased public enforcement on the number of infractions reported in the affected areas."

> "The Montérégie region: [...] a relative increase of about 50%, while it is only 15% in Montreal."

> "For the Montreal region, we observe that the deployment of police forces has resulted in a significant decrease in property crime and crimes against persons. In addition, the deployment of military personnel has also led to a decrease in property crimes."

They explain the increases in criminality with: "In other words, while the door-to-door operation would reduce property crime, it would at the same time increase the visibility of certain offences such as burglary".

I am not certain if their conclusion is accurate. But whether or not, this explains the rumors of people breaking into people's homes/cabins during that initial period and how the presence of the army calmed people's fears.

Never was it gangs roaming in the street (knowing the organized crime scene of Montreal, getting caught looting by the leading criminal elements during such an emergency would result in sever punishment) but small criminals working in the shadow.

The article also agrees with one of your points: "The work of Quarantelli (1960; 2001) shows that one of the main characteristics of human behaviour in times of disaster is not to flee, but to stay and persist as long as possible in daily activities (preserving their environmental reference)."


I have to agree with Cory Doctorow: when shit hits the fan, it's solidarity what happens. "The fact that we remain here today, after so many disasters in our species’ history, is a reminder that we are a species of self-rescuing princesses—characters who save one another in crisis, rather than turning on ourselves"[0]. It certainly has been the case in my city of 20-something million, total collapse due to earthquake, overwhelming self organizing and mutual help. People will probably turn on the rich and powerful, though, and the narrative of law and order breakdown if no police/government is likely coming from them

[0] https://slate.com/technology/2020/10/cory-docotorow-sci-fi-i...


I lost power for a few days during that ice storm. And a number of years later, another storm only knocked me out for about a day but there were people without power for 2-3 weeks. People stayed with relatives and friends, presumably there were emergency shelters, etc. But there was no armed gangs roaming the street in the Northeast and I doubt there were in Canada either.


And they had the tools to deal with it. I can't make a fire with my spare wood in my city apartment. A society where a large portion of the population dies is a societal collapse.




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