> None of these are living humans yet. They're pre humans.
Citation needed.
> without an identity or awareness
That is pretty easily disproven scientifically. Not even a biologist who is for legal abortion would say that a baby in the womb is unaware. There was an ultrasound a long time ago where you see the fetus recoil from the abortionist's knife. Of course it's aware. Just because it can't see the outside world yet doesn't mean it's unaware.
As far as identity, well, it has a unique fingerprint, DNA, etc. Are you saying you don't have an identity until there's a birth certificate?
> At what point do you think the sperm and egg are human?
Well, they are human from inception (see above). But they are a separate human being at conception.
> What proof do you have that says a fetus at 16 weeks is alive? How are you defining alive?
Even a single cell is alive. You have drifted from textbook science at this point.
> This is still dependent on the mother
Dependence doesn't disqualify you from being human or alive.
Awareness and consciousness is different then responding to stimulus.
> Even a single cell is alive. You have really drifted from textbook science at this point.
We're not talking about human cells being alive. were talking about the whole organism being considered alive and its own thing.
Talking about whether an organism that can not exist independently of its host, that hasn't experienced life yet can be aborted by that host.
It feels like your being disingenuous arguing semantics like cell life with me. Yes cells are live, no the organism is not an independent thing with its own rights. An nonviable fetus is not a fully grown human, this isn't killing babies.
> Awareness and consciousness is different then responding to stimulus.
This is not some clump of cells that "responds to stimulus" before birth and magically becomes "conscious and aware" after birth. It doesn't even line up with fetal viability.
> We're not talking about human cells being alive. were talking about the whole organism being considered alive and its own thing.
The whole organism is alive and its own thing from conception. This is undisputed among biologists.
Yes, and they are all human, https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/human
> None of these are living humans yet. They're pre humans.
Citation needed.
> without an identity or awareness
That is pretty easily disproven scientifically. Not even a biologist who is for legal abortion would say that a baby in the womb is unaware. There was an ultrasound a long time ago where you see the fetus recoil from the abortionist's knife. Of course it's aware. Just because it can't see the outside world yet doesn't mean it's unaware.
As far as identity, well, it has a unique fingerprint, DNA, etc. Are you saying you don't have an identity until there's a birth certificate?
> At what point do you think the sperm and egg are human?
Well, they are human from inception (see above). But they are a separate human being at conception.
> What proof do you have that says a fetus at 16 weeks is alive? How are you defining alive?
Even a single cell is alive. You have drifted from textbook science at this point.
> This is still dependent on the mother
Dependence doesn't disqualify you from being human or alive.