It's really the same on either side. It just changes with the circumstances. Some of the same people claiming the integrity of the vote shouldn't be questioned were the same people claiming the 2016 vote was compromised. And vice versa.
Compromised as a result of aggressive and targeting foreign influence. Social engineering sponsored by state-level actors.
Democrats weren't claiming massive voter fraud was occurring and that it robbed them of the election and refused to concede as as result.
In fact, the one person very loudly crying about voter fraud in 2016 was the same person doing it now. Donald Trump, unhappy at losing the popular vote, claimed and continues to claim that the only reason he failed to secure the popular vote was due to massive voter fraud.
Harry Reid isn't the center point of the Democratic party. Nor is Harry Reid the President, nor is Harry Reid trying to hold the White House hostage.
People say all kinds of crap. There are people who are democrats who are bad people, lie, and say dumb crap. There are people who are republicans who are bad people, lie, and say dumb crap.
There is a profound and marked difference between Harry Reid grumbling about 2016 and what is happening in this election.
Parties play party politics, and you're correct in that there is a lot hypocrisy in that, especially when the balance of power swings. This, however, is not an example of that. This is a refusal to not only accept reality, but also leave lasting damages and deepen the divide in this country. It's shameful and a national tragedy.
I thought Reid was minority whip when he made the 2016 comments.
Yeah, I can see Trump's comments being divisive. There have been Democrats that have made divisive comments too. Which is why I see them as similar. We'll have to see if he steps down when he's supposed to.
It is one of the big mistakes of US politics that the sides are treated as if they are equally compromised. It is really a strawman argument without any merit.
From my perspective, they both do questionable, self-serving, and even illegal things. The topics, methods, and frequency do vary. Personally, the last couple presidential elections have felt like a choice between a shit sandwich and a shit sandwich without the bread. (Which is which? Take your pick)
Because the level of mischief between republicans and democrats is just not comparable when objectively assessed (let's say from a historians perspective).
To give you an example from another context which is similar:
In Germany, polticians and some news media have started to use the notion that right-wing terror (e.g. neo-nazi) and left wing terror (e.g. Antifa) are equally evil. If you look objectively though, there is still a disproportionate amount of right-wing terror and many of the crimes attributed to the left-wing are really just part of their fight against the right (they are anti-fascists for a reason). While right-wing terror killed German citizens and immigrants each year, there is no comparable level of crime anymore that could be attributed to the left (need to go back 40 years).
I would like to see the numbers that support this for the Republican/Democrat version of this story. I feel like most people would have strong confirmation bias when assessing this topic.
Also, do you have numbers for looking at this from the perspective of the politicians? My comment was mainly focused on the politicians and party leadership, not really on individuals without an official capacity.
Can you point to any mainstream democrat who made accusations that voters were changed or forged in 2016? Democrats were claiming the process was compromised. I don't remember anyone seriously questioning the integrity of the votes themselves.
The claims weren't just that the system was compromised, but also that votes were manipulated or suppressed.
Harry Reid made claims that the vote totals were manipulated.
On a side note... thank you. At least you asked a question about my position rather than simply downvoting without an explanation.
Mea culpa, I was wrong to say "no mainstream democrat", but that was a single retired congressperson. The Republicans now also have two members of Congress who believe that Democrats participate in ritual sacrifice of children to drink their blood so maybe we shouldn't focus on the extreme minority opinions of these parties. Voter fraud is a rallying cry of a large percentage of the Republican party. Votes being changed in 2016 or any other election is not a major rallying cry of a large percentage of the Democratic party.
I believe he was an active US senator at the time (2015-2016). I forget if he was majority leader or minority whip, it if that was during a different part of his tenure.
I do agree that it seemed somewhat isolated in official statements. I did hear quite a few individuals in my personal life believe/state that since the system was compromised that must mean the votes/count must have been changed.
I can see how the fraud claim is popular - if you're losing the popular vote consistently due to (simplistically) higher urban population, you might look for something to use as an excuse. This makes an easy excuse since in your constituent areas (rural) you would have the observation bias that almost everyone you know voted for your candidate and still lost. Sloppy voting system maintenance supplies plenty of anecdotal things to point to, like dead people kn the voting role.
