My 21 and 23 year old daughters have moved back in with us. They stay up until the wee hours of the morning watching streaming media, then wake up mid afternoon to get on social media, eat dinner with us and then repeat. I can't wait till they leave. At least when they are living on their own I don't have to know about their bad habits.
As someone who's faced end of life fears, this kind of perspective is very different from the one you might get when you're realizing your time on this Earth is suddenly limited. I'm not saying you're not frustrated, but there's more to consider. I love having my kid around, even though we are sometimes annoyed with each other.
>>They stay up until the wee hours of the morning watching streaming media
That is how young people keep contact with their collective culture. Do you expect them to sit in the corner reading newspapers?
>> then wake up mid afternoon
Efficient time-sharing of common areas. I have to haul myself into work before 6am, but when I get a day off I sleep as long as possible. That is healthy.
>> to get on social media,
Social media is can be a career. Parents once laughed at kids who wanted to be on TV. That isn't a joke anymore. Now the want to be hot on social media. That is as valid a career choice as wanting to be an actor or pro athlete.
>>> eat dinner with us and then repeat.
They eat dinner with their parents? That is a problem? I know plenty of parents, mine included, who would love to have their kids eat at the same table.
Well, they definitely didn't learn it from me or my wife. We both work all the time and barely take time to stop and rest. When they were growing up we would have them work with us on house projects, in the garden, at the food bank, etc. Apparently our work ethic didn't get picked up.
Early tech? They were born in the 90s. The only early tech they were exposed to was the VCR. Neither got their own phone until they were in their 20s (we told them they could have a phone when they could buy it themselves - it took until they were in their 20s for them to be able to buy their own).
I have seen family's give all the right guidance and opportunities and children still end up a mess. I have seen horrible families do everything wrong and seen children become quite successful.
Environment plays a part but self determination plays an even larger one. One of my current favorite sayings is "you come into this world looking like your daddy, you leave this world looking like your decisions."
That’s a funny saying, considering who your daddy (and mommy) is most predictive of your future. Obviously perseverance and effort are important, but so is being born to the right parents.
Not to dig too deeply into a single example, but... what should they be doing? Are they employed or in school? If not, what is your expectation of what they should be doing?
I agree that if they're living with you, they should probably be doing chores, cooking, and getting some exercise in. But if they're financially constrained and have nothing to do, futzing about on the Internet and social media isn't a particularly bad use of time (even if it's also not a particularly good one).
Basically what you said, helping out around the house, cooking, helping younger siblings with their school work, etc. Everywhere I go there are help wanted signs, but neither displays any interest in seeking employment (even though they both could really use the money). Both are on a hiatus from school right now.
What are the prospects behind these "help wanted" signs? Jobs for minimum wage, not covering gas for the car or masks, that will put you in the frontline facing other people?
I'm not in favor of my children sitting idle, but if the alternative is for them to go work outside only to bring back £1000 and COVID, well, that's a pure loss, I'd rather they stay home a couple months doing the chores. University should resume soon enough.
It's crazy when I think about it. Masks can be £1-2 a piece nowadays (the good ones). If my daughter is going to work and has to change masks 3+ times a day, it's 1 hour of bullshit job a day just to pay for the masks. It's insane. :O
To all those who are jumping on @irrational, chill.
I guess, all @irrational was trying to do is vent his/her frustrations in a semi-anonymous forum. I sort of understand how he feels (having a younger kid of my own).
And @irrational, maybe they behave in the way they do to mask their frustrations. They probably don't like coming back and living with you because of all social stigma surrounding it.
I don't know about your life, so I maybe entirely wrong, but them watching streaming media and browsing social media may not be productive but is also probably not the worst thing to do. That maybe the only way for them to connect with their peers, any other topics to talk about are just chaos, to be honest. 21 and 23 maybe adults, but they shouldn't be blamed just for being a bit lost in the current state of affairs, at least, IMHO.
You are taking a lot of heat for this comment. I hope things get better for everyone. In the mean time, can't nothing be done to help them get back on track ? 21/23 is still young and such habits can have a hefty price later on.
My kids are 14 and 8. The rule is simple no phone/devices in your room after 10pm - yes the 14 year old whined and protested when we implemented this rule last year. Now it's just the norm (kids adapt) and she puts her phone on the charger in our bedroom every night.
I don't expect this rule to change regardless of their age. In our house being 18 doesn't mean anything - our house, our rules.
Of course, and you've completely failed as a parent if you've cultivated such a dysfunctional relationship with your children that instead of being able to confidently have an adult conversation with them about this you're biting your tongue and waiting for them to go away.
At 21 and 23 the ship has largely sailed, enjoy sleeping in that bed.
They are adults. They can make their own decisions. I'm not going to tell them what to do. I tried to teach them the right things to do when they were growing up. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. They have their agency and have chosen the path they want to take.
I'm guessing that they can sense the way you feel about them. It probably makes interacting with other people through social media more pleasant than interacting with you.
I'm sure you didn't mean it to, but commenting that way crosses into personal attack. Please don't do that.
Family connections are the most emotional things in our lives. It's one thing to comment on one's own experience, but quite another to step into judging someone else's. It's usually best to stick to the former, since that's almost all we're really talking about anyway.
I realize that the GP comment was provocative but we need to find other ways to react to provocation than butting heads—otherwise we just spiral into conflict.
As a 23 y/o, the future seems bleak to me. Our government and leadership has failed us, nobody is doing anything about climate change, and there is record unemployment.
On a personal level, especially with covid but also just life in general around now, all of my friends moved elsewhere and while we can keep in touch with social media it's still not as good as it was.
There just doesn't seem to be anything worth building towards, or anything much more meaningful than trying to keep close to what few friends you can.
I don't know your situation or your daughters but I can see myself in them somewhat.
Life has it's ups and downs. Things seemed bleak at times during past recessions, the 70s energy crisis, the cold war, etc. But life also has it's ups and they will come sooner or later.
> Life has it's ups and downs. Things seemed bleak at times during past recessions, the 70s energy crisis, the cold war, etc. But life also has it's ups and they will come sooner or later.
You sound deeply out of touch with the younger generation. The younger generation understands the fundamental flaws in our society more than probably any in the past. And, to them, it sounds pretty hopeless. Many educated people I've met speak more and more about not wanting children because they don't want to bring them into a cruel world that was ruined by their ancestors.
Just sayin' - there are many reasons to be displeased. Things back then were temporary - things now are permanent.
Speaking from the younger generations perspective, this is a great way to destroy the relationship with your adult children.
I'm sure it doesn't feel great for them to be dependent on you and face your scorn on a daily basis. I just hope the situation will never be reversed, for your sake.
From my experience, feeling constantly judged by my parents is damaging (speaking for myself and my siblings) and leads to avoidant behaviors. This holds true whether I am working or not, whether I live with them or am on my own.
Maybe you can have a conversation with them to reset expectations? Part of this process should communicate to them what your expectations are and then, if they meet those expectations you should try not to judge their lifestyles.
Would you care if they slept until noon if they were otherwise productive?
The fact that there are nebulous unspoken "rules" is a likely source of tension.
Apologies for the judgment in my last comment, clearly I do not know your family and am just projecting my own familial dysfunction. To put it bluntly, your comment hit a nerve but my response was uncalled for.
If their actions were productive and healthy I would agree with you. Yet their behavior sounds unproductive and unlikely to lead to a quality life. As such scorn is warranted.
Younger generations 40 and below have a tendency to believe that regardless of what they are doing no one can have a negative opinion on what they do, otherwise the other party is to be blamed and shamed. There is little to no self accountability.
What's needed here is sympathy. They could as well be depressed, addicted or have any other problem they're trying to run away from. Or just a broken sleep cycle. Bottom line is, if you're bitter about it, you're unlikely to change anything and only get to accumulate resentment.
Agree hard with this. For one, we all know how addictive screens are. Many people commenting here are part of the firms that design/support these addiction machines.
What I would want older generations to understand is that modern lifestyle is more and more of an attention trap that expresses itself both mentally and physically.
