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Any thoughts on the AMT trap, and the potential inability to exercise (or go bankrupt with AMT) when you leave? It's not exactly written in red warning letters on offer packages, right?


Solution is to get rid of the 90 day limit for ex-employees, which is also just the right thing to do in general.

Doesn't totally solve AMT, as there are other reasons to want to exercise other than "because your options are about to expire", but it does fix the worst common issue.


AMT has changed a lot since Trump adjusted the tax rules. I suspect it isn't relevant any more.

> The number of households owing AMT rose from 200,000 in 1982 to 5.2 million in 2017, but was reduced back to 200,000 in 2018 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_minimum_tax


Less relevant on the margins, but for the people who get hosed the worst (ie. owe the IRS millions when you never seen cash anywhere near that) the trap is very much still there.

If you have ISOs with a low strike price with a private company that is approaching IPO—especially considering the insanity in the stock market right now—you better take a long hard look at the numbers before exercising (or leaving your company and being forced to exercise)


If you’re hitting ATM you’re doing extremely well for yourself and are privileged.


You seem to be unfamiliar with the AMT trap? I would recommend Googling it. It impacts people who are not well-off prior to exercising their options by triggering AMT upon exercise.


Right, but why exercise the option without next selling it? If you’re quitting, that’s a risk. And AMT is applied on the gains. So your strike is $1, valuation currently at $100 and you pay tax on the $99 gain. Unless it’s Theranos that valuation wont go back to $1, so yes, you’re privileged.


In private companies, you often are unable to sell your shares because it requires board approval. The AMT trap, in oversimplified terms, is being wealthy enough on paper, due to shares, to trigger AMT but unable to sell shares to cover the taxes.


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Grass is always greener...

It can be a tough decision, but I have been through it enough times that I don't really care what the options package is. I just want one if everyone else gets one, but otherwise I look at salary and benefits. Because most likely the shares will become worthless, and if not, I most likely won't be around to see the liquidation event. I never exercise unless I know for a fact a liquidation event is coming.


Thats different than being an uber early employee and knowing your private equity is worth a ton. I also wouldn’t exercise random startup shares unless they were real cheap and I wanted to roll the dice. The uber example is clearer. I’d always rather be a paper millionaire than not a millionaire at all. At least you have the choice to exercise some if you leave, or all if you can afford the loans. Also uber is a bad example since people DID sell their private shares as there was enough of a marketplace for it.



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OK. You posted this unsubstantive comment 3 times...


Because you literally can’t sell it. This is why we people get stuck at startups. You must immediately exercise upon leaving but cannot sell, incurring huge tax bills but zero cash in your wallet.

If you are rich you can afford it. If you aren’t, you are forced to take zero.


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Between your posting this comment three times and ignoring the many requests at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24335771, I think this is enough and have banned your account.

If you change your mind, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll use the site as intended.


This entire subthread is about "people who are doing well" getting shafted.




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