It's an alright list, but that's some beginner level stuff. Where's things like
-cat is obssessed with plastic bags whenever he wants attention and ends up wearing them like a cape trailing it through the house causing havoc.
-cat likes to knock over your breakable things just cause it likes to see them smash
-wake up at 2 in the morning to some weird noises only to find the cat spiderman-ing up the screen on the window because some rats or something were outside
-on the note of two in the morning, that's of course the cats favourite time to run around the house meowing on the top of his lungs, just because.
-if you have a cat and get a puppy, get ready for that puppy to start walking on window sills, the back of the couch, and even up on the coffee table even if it's over 50lbs and clumsy as hell, cause the cat does it.
-Oh, you were 5 minutes late feeding the cat, well have fun with non stop fucking around for the rest of the day or night
-made some steak, fish, chicken, even salad...and turned your back for a second, well that cat's gonna be all up in that, as a bonus, maybe he'll knock it onto the ground so him and the dogs can feast.
But despite all this...and more, still love the furry little bastard.
Almost all of these sorts of behavioural issues (with the exception of the food-motivated ones) tend to disappear when you allow your cat the freedom to go outside whenever it wants. They're not well suited to confinement and it always shows in their behavior. Sometimes they just get depressed and mopey, which a lot of people interpret as their cat "not minding" its confinement. Other times they try to relieve the soul-crushing boredom of their lives by knocking things over, yelling, or actively messing with you. Sure, you can "train" your cat not to engage in these behaviors (as other commenters note, however, they're smart enough to realize you're not always watching them) or you could just allow them access to the far more compelling activities that exist outdoors. They'll even choose to do mundane stuff (lie in the sun, poop) outdoors nine times out of ten. They just prefer being out.
Reading some of the things people in this thread do to their cats made me sad, especially the people talking about techniques for preventing their cats from getting out the front door.[0] If you would never treat a human the way you treat your cat on a regular basis, that should give you pause. If it's "for their own good" you made a selfish choice in pet ownership.
[0] An airlock system where the cat is required to sit perfectly still before you open the door? Don't they do similar stuff in actual prisons?
the indoor vs outdoor debate wrt cats is a timeless one, but I don't think the answer is so clear cut as you make it seem. in principle, I would like for our family cat to have free rein of the outdoors, but we don't quite feel it is safe for him. in addition to the local predators that actually have to work for a living, my parents live right next to a six-lane death road in the city. the speed limit is 30 mph, but people routinely drive in excess of 60 mph on the downhill side. I'm confident the cat can avoid vehicles moving at a reasonable speed, but that road is unsafe for humans, let alone cats.
there's also the issue of housecats killing a staggering number of birds each year. tbh, this is not really a factor that weighs heavily on our decision, but it's something to think about.
finally, many cats are rescues for whom living freely outdoors was never an option. imo, it's better to be an indoor cat in a loving home than a dead cat.
Cats do kill an insane number of birds. We've found that attaching a large, colourful collar with reflective bits helps immensely on our cat. Birds are highly sensitive to colours, and our observation is that the cat simply isn't able to catch any birds anymore. They see him coming far too early.
As for the other points, I suspect you're overestimating the dangers, but that's not my call. I personally think no animal should be kept imprisoned in a home, though; I don't want to give any animal less freedom of movement than I have. Imprisoned pets even more depressing to me than zoos.
I've tried multiple collars. The magnetic ones always go missing, and the ones with a buckle have resulted in it being stuck in a hedge...
Our cat catches birds and rodents about equally judging on what he leaves at the door. I really appreciate that it catches mice and rats. It's unfortunate with the birds, I try to make up for it with a garden where they have ample opportunity to nest and find food.
I recommend sewing your own, or having someone (on Etsy, for example) custom-make it for you. We didn't find any off-the-shelf ones that were good enough.
Here [1] is what our "clown collar" looks like. It's just a loop. There's a hook that keeps it closed, but it's almost impossible to open it while it's on the cat. It sits so snug around the cat's neck that it never gets tangled in anything, and can't fall off, and we take the collar on and off just by pulling the whole thing over the cat's head.
My partner made this by sewing together some brightly coloured fabric with some shiny, reflective stuff.
It's completely clear cut before you're responsible for the animal: don't bring a pet into an unsuitable living situation. This is why the safety and environmental arguments ring hollow for me - nobody forces you to get a cat.
I completely agree. It always breaks my heart to see locked up animals, be it a cat not allowed to go outside, a dog confined in an appartement with only one outing a day in the urban concrete or a bear in a cage in a zoo. Makes no difference to me.
I firmly believe animal rights movements should discourage pet owning but it's often the other way around, at least from where i'm from.
Discouraging pet ownership, while I agree with it, would put you into an extremely fringe category akin to advocating veganism. The world just isn't ready for that level of compassion for animals. We still live in cultures where five minutes of pleasure for our taste buds trumps all ethical concerns.
It's extremely socially acceptable to get two dogs in your tiny apartment and keep them in kennels while you're at work for 9 hours, and again for 9 hours overnight. People will even come out of the woodwork to convince you that the dogs actually prefer that.
I also think we need to dial back breeding. Breeders just dump unwanted animals into street/pound circulation while breeding the most gimped animals (purebreds) out there, the last thing we need.
I don't discourage pet ownership, in fact I think it's an extremely positive thing for many reasons. I do encourage making responsible choices when it comes to pet selection.
I can agree wholeheartedly for animals that are raised by breeders, and honestly I think this practice should end; there are already more animals than people want to home. but rescue cats already exist before they are adopted. the question is not "can I provide an ideal life for this animal?" but rather, "can I offer an improvement over living in a shelter and eventual euthanasia?".
I let him out when I'm out with him, but I don't really live in a place where he can get free reign. The first 7 years of his life, he had to stay in, I lived in a busy industrial area with no yard, there was always vehicles and machinery around, I found more than a couple dead cats(among other cat sized animals) in the area over the years.
Where I live now, there's a fenced yard, but there's a busy highway a block away, a pack of coyotes that lives up the street, a couple owls that live in the yard, a few eagle's nests, there's regularly bears and racoons and a fair bit of forest just behind the yard.
His life as an indoor cat hasn't really given him the instincts to look after himself. He walks and lays out in thr open, doesn't really understand he can jump on things until he tries, doesn't hide from shadows or other things outdoor cats do to avoid dying.
He seems pretty happy getting to go out with the dogs and stuff though. He tends to stick by them and alerts when they do and stuff. He doesn't try to escape or anything unless we're going outside with the dogs, then he's right there at the door with them.
We did leave a window open one time recently and he jumped out. But he freaked himself out or something when he couldn't get back in. He was just lying under the window when I got home and went running back in as soon as I opened the door and wouldn't go outside for a couple days.
I agree with this, we should allow our cats to be outside. However, I do not think we should allow domestic cats to roam wherever they please. We should let them roam in a somewhat controlled manner.
Additionally, feral cats are awful for native bird and small mammal populations. Your cat will probably hunt and eat small mammals and birds if you let it roam freely.
They'll establish their own territorial limits without our help. That's part of why they like roaming.
If you care about native bird and small mammal populations then don't introduce a cat into the environment. I used to live in an area with a lot of endangered native rodents and while I would've liked to have a cat around I didn't get one. It's not complicated.
Our cat was a half-rescue and the previous owners said "Oh, she doesn't like going outside. She's definitely an indoor cat."
In fact she loves going outside. She poops and pees outdoors, so the house doesn't smell. There are some wild areas near the house and she's all over those. She gets very, very unhappy when kept indoors.
She also needs at least 15-20 mins a day of play attention. Slap-the-bouncy-ball, chase-the-laser-up-the-stairs, hide-and-seek-in-the-tunnel, smack-the-ring-binder-spring-on-a-string - which she particularly likes, for some reason.
Enough stimulation and attention and she's a happy kitty. No angry biting, no 2am zoomies, no breakages, plenty of purrs and affection.
I've come to the conclusion that it's safer for the cats and for the fauna to keep the cats indoors. It also means they don't get fleas. However, I do take them outside in the backyard on a leash and they do seem to enjoy that. This gives them some outside time without the risks (there are coyotes in the area, for example, as well as a nearby busy street). Another option is a catio.
In Belgium (w/ my parents) we had a (big) garden and our cats could always freely roam outside. Some of them stayed near, others disappeared for many hours and probably went relatively far.
It's true that they are fantastic hunters: it's in their genes. Even if they won't eat the prey, the amount of birds, mice, even small rabbits they returned was staggering. Cats are dicks though, they kill for fun and kill billions (?) of other animals every year. And won't eat them.
We also had a neighbour that thought it was fun to shoot animals (including cats) in his garden. Took a while before the neighbourhood found out why cats kept disappearing (having a cat come home with a tiny lead bullet wound gave it away).
There's also roadkill and thieves. I'd say for a long period (before we found out someone was shooting cats) cats we disappear quite regularly (every 2-3 years a cat would never come home).
But I still agree cats should be allowed to roam outside: they'll be less bored, less destructive, and less annoying.
I have now moved to Singapore and adopted a lost kitten ("Tofu") roughly 2 years ago and an abandoned ~1 year cat ("Taro") (left alone on a 7th floor balcony without food in 30°C sun while the owners were out of town for several days) roughly a year ago.
Cats in Singapore commonly "fall out of the sky" -- meshing and protecting windows is not that common here, yet. Cats (including mine) love to sit on the ledge and stare outside, and once in a while they slip.
I've moved from a 12th floor apartment to a 3rd floor apartment: in both cases you either keep the windows shut or make sure it's meshed up. It's a requirement here now before you're able to adopt a cat from a shelter. They come and physically inspect your home to make sure it's suitable, clear and big enough.
We're lucky both our cats are long-haired nice looking cats. There might be some pedigree in there, somewhere. We've had people randomly walk up to us and ask us how much we paid for the cats ($0) and if we'd be willing to sell them (no). That makes me believe if they were to walk alone they'd be stolen and sold off.
The abandoned-rescued cat is fine staying indoor -- he is pretty traumatised and scared of every tiny noise. The other cat we've taught from early on to walk with a leash.
We take her out anywhere between 1 to 3 times a day depending on whether she asks for it or not. Walks are unlike walking a dog: you follow the cat and the cat usually doesn't go very far (it'll often just sit in the grass and look at the birds/lizards). Once we reach a quiet area near the apartment I remove the leash, and she gets to hop or walk around a bit. She never goes far and actually waits for me.
Needless to say it's a very quiet, green area here without roads and very little passer-by's.
So I'd say it really depends on the circumstances whether the cat should be allowed out (unsupervised). Yes, it makes sense as they are semi wild, but also a living cat is probably better than a dead cat.
Some of your complaints stem from the cat(s) not having learnt what is and is not acceptable. They love to manipulate things with their paws and naturally many will try to swipe/push things and sometimes off ledges, shelves etc.
You can teach them that that is not acceptable and they will learn. It is even easier to discourage such things from a young age.
Also, it's good to never give them your food and make them learn that they never get food from you at any time other than their feeding time (barring the occasional treat) and always only in their food bowls.
A lot of it is consistency and discipline. I've had multiple cats start the behaviour of swiping/pushing things off surfaces but it wasn't hard at all to curtail that. While I've raised a non-trivial number of them, I've never had a cat which considered that s/he got food when humans are eating.
yes, they're quite clever and attentive. the cats i've had have always known what was in and out of bounds. just like people, some push the boundaries and other don't.
my now 2-year-old cat is exceedingly and surprisingly mindful of all of my what must seem to be arbitrary to her rules around tables and scratching and such (whereas my former two cats were always sneaking behind my back and breaking the rules). the only one she routinely disobeys is munching on the plants. but that's partially my fault, as i always take too long to replenish the cat grass for her.
Aren’t these all reasons for having a cat as a pet?
Intellectually it seems strange to have pets: after all we build homes to keep alien species out. Yet when I met a neighbor who didn’t have a pet it seemed weird and even somewhat of a personality disorder. Which is absurd: households with pets are in the minority. But I really can’t imagine living without dogs, cats and assorted other vertebrates.
This didn't "seem" right to me, so I went looking. Seems like a little over 2/3 of US households have pets. (I couldn't easily find worldwide figures.)
It's interesting how you find it weird; I'm almost like the opposite side of the same coin.
I have pretty bad allergies to most pets and never grew up with them and find them. Apart from the itching and eczema, I don't really feel like I'm in a home when pets are around. For others though, I think it's the complete opposite. It must be with what we grow up with.
Totally! Having live with pets for almost my entire life, it feels “obviously” normal, but if I step back, I (and the rest of the world’s pet loving minority) are actually abnormal.
I made sure my daughters grew up with cats, because I thought it would make their immune system more robust (having grown up around farms myself) and it looks like it worked. No allergies at all.
Honestly I have terrible allergies and am so happy to have pets. After around 6mo of cohabitation my allergies settle down, not to zero, but manageable.
I tried acclimating through pets at work and taking allergy shots, but I didn’t have any luck improving symptoms over a year. I wish I was in your situation.
I know at least one other person who managed to adopt cats and dogs after I told them my journey. Basically, I took a lot of antihistamines and over-the-counter anti-allergy steroids regularly for the first year or so. I still get allergic reactions if I stick my face into my cat, so I don't do that. Having good air filtration helps, as does frequent vacuuming. Regular hand washing is a must. In general though it's very manageable now. I still take allergy meds regularly for seasonal allergies, so that helps too. Work pets/shots never worked well for me. Good luck!
> Intellectually it seems strange to have pets: after all we build homes to keep alien species out.
We build homes to keep bad organisms (pests, thieves) out and good organisms (family, friends, babies, pets, plants) in. Species is relatively orthogonal. As long as the organism is a net value-add, in it goes.
I actively chose not to replace our cat when it died a few years back because I wanted the freedom to go for holidays or weekends away without having to organise people to look after our pet, being too time poor to give the animal the attention it needs (yes, even for a cat), and also the environmental destruction that cats cause.
Took about 6 months before a local cat adopted us as it's preferred owners, most likely due to the lack of another cat having claimed our yard as its territory. This new cat is the one I've referred to in a previous cat / pet related HN story.
A friend's cat is like this. I fear that there's nothing for it. But, some things I've succeed at improving rambunctious cat behavior:
1. Play with them at least 30 minutes a day. If they're not bouncing off the walls during this play, you're doing it wrong.
2. A catio can provide entertainment. Kinda passive, probably won't be a significant improvement.
3. Never feed them human food, even if it hits the floor. Never let them on counters or tables. Use spray bottles, clapping and hissing to enforce rules.
4. Give them safe places on high -- cat towers are cool, shelving and ceiling-height bridges are awesome.
And of course, you've already got a relationship with your cat. They'll be very slow to learn and possibly vindictive. Sorry. Better luck with your next cat.
First we built a cat tree, and it was good. Then we bought auction cup window perches, and they were even better. Then we built a catio and it was the best thing a cat could possibly imagine and their minds were blown. Then we got chickens that they could watch from these places and oh boy!!!
Yes on all these points. Although I never had to resort to use spray bottles or hissing to enforce the rules.
Use their name often (they love that). Also surprisingly sniffing things is everything to them. When playing do not let them use their nails (Just saying ouch and immediately stop playing is enough to point out you do not approve).
My cat will tap my hands when playing, but rarely use his nails, only by accident.
Make sure that there are multiple spots in the house where they can sharpen their nails. A single scratching pole is probably not sufficient.
We made the mistake of laughing when she pounced our toes in bed. Oh dear, when her claws need a trim and she lands on a thin blanket, it's no good. So we run her more during the day and she isn't as feisty at night. Come morning though...
Also, like other mammals, cats start out hyper as kittens/teenagers and chill out as they get older. My cat is coming up on 8 years old now and he still plays occasionally but he spends way less time going berko and way more time sitting in my lap.
> -cat likes to knock over your breakable things just cause it likes to see them smash
My cats are super careful and have maybe knocked over 1 thing.
> -wake up at 2 in the morning to some weird noises only to find the cat spiderman-ing up the screen on the window because some rats or something were outside
My cats not only sleep through the night, they insist I go to bed on time (no later than 11) or they start getting upset.
> -Oh, you were 5 minutes late feeding the cat, well have fun with non stop fucking around for the rest of the day or night
My cats are under weight (!!) so I try to feed them as often as possible.
Never had them really beg for food, though if I am eating string cheese they'll beg for that.
> My cats not only sleep through the night, they insist I go to bed on time (no later than 11) or they start getting upset.
My boy Dudley is the same. It’s so funny I’ll be in the living room watching TV and at a certain time he’s like “okay good night” and wanders off to the bedroom. He sleeps through the night, but will be up at dawn to watch the birds outside through the window.
> My cats not only sleep through the night, they insist I go to bed on time (no later than 11) or they start getting upset.
I wasn't ready for this - my kitten started doing this lately (or I have to seal off the room I'm working on, ignore her pleas and let her go sleep in a kids bed).
Every dog I've ever had has done the exact same thing.
My current kitties also get upset if I wake up too early.
Then again a lot of things upset them, including spending too much time with my wife, skipping home workouts (they get petted in between sets), and standing up too often to stretch (one of them spends ~50% of the day sitting on my lap while I code).
You got to be more assertive with your cats, your literally 10-20 times their size, give them food and protection and they know it. One good technique I've found that doesn't escalate things is to blow air in their face (with your mouth). They tend to go away, but they also don't get pissed off. Don't want them somewhere, physically move them , without emotion. Find them annoying, blow in their face or move them (gently) away. You can escalate with water spraying.
My cats get fed when I start making dinner. They're really mellow about feeding time, I think it is that there's only an approximate time and that it is tied to me feeding me, they don't get neurotic about it.
The worst stupid cat trick I've put up with was one who would dart outside if he got the chance. Problem was, he had never been an outdoor cat, was pretty dumb, and would immediately panic and hide. Once ended up talking to the cops about breaking into my own house when someone saw me crawling underneath after spotting his eyes reflecting back at me.
"Once ended up talking to the cops about breaking into my own house when someone saw me crawling underneath after spotting his eyes reflecting back at me."
One great thing about pets is the new people you get to meet.
I have long thought about how to solves this problem with my cats. I currently have a two-door setup (analogous to an airlock) and this is not a problem. Nevertheless, what I try is to teach them that anytime I open a door which was previously closed, they have to first sit and then wait for me to give them permission (I say a specific word) before they are allowed to pass through it. Until then they must be seated. Sometimes I open the door, go to the other side and do my stuff and get back and don't let them through. This also lets them know that they don't _always_ get to go through that door. If I see them make the first small movement as if to get up, a stern "hey" makes them drop that idea. Of course, there is no risk _now_ as they can't go outside from the 2-door arrangement but I may move to a different house some time in the future and that might be set up differently. Also in general, I don't want them to have a habit of running through doors that just opened.
An automatic feeder is worth having. It seems to decouple the food from the owner in the cat's mind, so that if they're hungry, they go sit by the feeder instead of complaining to you.
We always just kept our cats' bowls full of dry food all the time. Unlike dogs, most cats won't keep eating until they make themselves sick, even though they may get chubby.
That has always been my experience (lifetime cat owner), but I’ve also seen friends/family whose cats need to be fed “meals” because they devour everything that’s set out for them immediately.
Then again, we have two kids and basically from birth (ok, from weaning) one we need to coax to eat more and the other appears to have a defective float switch that never seems to trigger...
We got 2 cats who were brothers—littermates—from a friend of a friend, who owned the mother and took very good care of all the kittens until they adopted out most of them.
One of the two brothers is obsessed with food, and would cheerfully eat himself up to bowling ball proportions if we let him.
The other would, if permitted, be a very happy "graze when it suits him" cat. Alas, given his brother's propensities, this is not possible.
At least feeding him in a little ball with adjustable holes means he no longer regularly wolfs his food so fast he throws up...
I feed my cats at a random time between 7am and 10am (between 7 and 7:30 during the work week, between 8 and 10 on the weekend). They never bother me in the morning on the weekend, and on the rare occasion they do they usually want to play. I think the randomness has helped, especially the extreme variability of the weekend.
I have my cat trained to expect a phone alarm for breakfast time. Total accident at first. It was my wake-up alarm, but I started always walking up before it, and then it was the "owner's awake and over here" signal. Any meowing before it gets a strong tone at first and a spritz if continued. Now that I'm working from home, I'll also start using an alarm for dinner.
I had tried to teach her to read an analog clock by putting it near her food dish. No change in behavior except she kept knocking it over.
My previous cat was like yours, though. She didn't expect meals at usual times on weekends. We can train them somewhat, but they do have unique personalities.
> wake up at 2 in the morning to some weird noises
I used to have that problem. But I now make sure to exhaust my cat, feed him, and poop him before I sleep. And he no longer wakes me up in the middle of the night. Works like a charm.
I heard of somebody who trolled their cat owning housemate by immediately cleaning the litter box after the cat pooped for a week, to make them think the cat wasn't pooping, then they took a huge dump in the litter box.
I wonder whether that’s a neurotic thing about wanting clean litter or an emotional support thing. Your cat might only feel safe enough to go potty with you nearby. Just guessing with little info admittedly.
I don't know! There are counterexamples to both hypotheses: She'll often go before I actually start cleaning, so if it's clean litter, she's not very good at recognizing it; and similarly, while she likes to poop in my face, it's not the only time she uses the box, so I can't say she feels uncomfortable without me, either. I'd be more inclined to say the latter (or some variant), since she also likes to come visit me + keep watch while I use the bathroom, if I don't latch the door shut.
Our cat (we used to have two but sadly his brother died) was named by the breeder Purfedelis Tasmanian Devil - which perhaps gives some indication of his temperament. He is a bit aggressive with other people but is friendly and very affectionate with me (and to a lesser extent my wife).
I'm definitely in the "love the furry little bastard" camp.
I appreciated the recommendations, but from a tech perspective related most with this sentence in the opening paragraph: "when I tried to research mitigations for any of these it was 100% SEO listicles".
I've found this to be true as well. Searching for impressions/reviews on literally any type of product is impossible now - the entire first page of results are just spammy sites either regurgitating PR for a specific product or paraphrasing Amazon reviews. In order to get real human opinions on anything, you have to suffix your search with "reddit".
All of these sites are clearly bogus and should be banned. How did search become so broken?
I don't think the type of content you're looking for even exists any more.
Even if someone has the desire to create a high quality, old-school, interest-based site, they're going to be dealing with the fact that Google won't surface the content because SEO magic, there is no community of similar sites who will link to them, and their content doesn't fit the format preferred by social media.
I think the web has firmly shifted to being about commercial entities having a way of plugging content into Google. The initial premise, a web of carefully curated links between long-lived documents, is dead. And the people who would have created websites if they grew up in the 90s and early 2000s have moved onto other formats.
I've found that it's not just for product review. For any generic life topics (pet, plumbing, etc.), web searching is not an effective choice anymore. It's a mixture of PR, useless home remedies, and a small number of helpful information.
I either do site:reddit.com, or some other more specific forum/website that I already know. Another option is to search YouTube, and only choose the videos in which I see the video maker actually perform the plumbing, or get along with a cat.
I just wanted to say that thoughtful posts like this are the reason I come to this site. Well-said, friend. I had never even explicitly acknowledged this in my own mind until I read your post.
for my money I trust niche sites more than reddit. I know subreddits are "niche" but they tend to attract neophytes interested in a topic. For example, hn is better for programming, paceline is better for bike stuff, erowid is better for ... erowid stuff. As far as product reviews, has there ever been a reliable source? Either find an expert reviewer you trust, or a niche retailer (not Amazon).
But yeah it's a good question, why can't Google do a better job surfacing these higher quality sources. Business opportunity!
I’ve always had my cats as outdoor/indoor animals, with no litterbox at all (Except when they’re very young). Never noticed any problems with smell, as cats are naturally clean animals and do a good job of simply finding a place to use the bathroom outside.
I joke that indoor cats are like children (with all the maintenance that entails..), whereas outdoor cats are like delinquent friends that randomly show up to eat your food and crash on your couch. Both have their pros and cons!
How do you deal with things like fleas? We have nearby squirrels and a small yard and are sure the fleas we dealt with were brought in by outdoor lounging from our cat.
I would be careful about using that stated outdoor-only (ie, feral) cat lifespan for an indoor/outdoor cat, though the dangers are real. Ours is currently mostly indoor only (until we get all the cat-toxic plants in our yard removed) but we have neighbors and friends with indoor/outdoor cats that are definitely older than 10 years. Mitigate them with reflective collars and nextdoor or other neighborhood alert system to know when coyotes are around.
An indoor only cat never really grows up psychologically, you're always its ever-present mommy. I'm not sure I want that for my kitten.
Regarding the litter and smell - being a relatively new cat owner I did a lot of reading and I came to 2 conclusions (note: I only have one cat, and she's < 1 yo):
1) Litter needs scooping every day. Otherwise cat will rightfully be upset and do poop in the wrong place just to let you know. Recommended to have N+1 litters for the N cats, but small apartment = difficult to place/clean all of them.
2) According to many cat books (notably Jackson Galaxy) litters are a prime scent-soaker and major signpost that lets cat mark their territory. So venting them outside may cause other confidence issues.
Could the smell issue be resolved by simply scooping regularly?
I don't really understand smell complaints with litter. I have a cat that has VERY stinky poops and the litter box is in my bedroom (it's in a closet area that I removed the door from).
If he poops then I remove it immediately. Otherwise I collect any urine deposits at night before I go to bed.
Obviously the poop itself smells but I've never had a problem with litter smell and don't understand what people are doing wrong. Surely they just aren't cleaning the litter box enough.
People vary widely in their sensitivity to particular smells.
My kids made a "compost jar" for a school project a few years ago. They took some soil, a bunch of rotting food waste, and earthworms and put it all in a jar. At some point, the jar was accidentally got left too close to a window and the worms got crisped and died. It took several days for us to notice. I threw that rotting dark concoction out in the garden.
Unbeknownst to me, the dog got out and—like dogs do—decided to gulp that whole pungent witch's brew down. It became very beknownst to me about ten minutes later when she threw the whole thing up on the brand new rug. We're talking a large puddle of hot garbage, rotting earthworms, dogfood, and bile. It was vile. The smell was heart-stopping. I have never cleaned up a mess so fast in my life.
Even so, cat poop is worse for me. It will make me gag instantly. Something about the fishy meatiness of it turns my stomach.
In my experience, it's 1). scooping regularly, and 2) change the litter when it first starts to lose the potency.
The only time I had a cat smell problem was at the start of the quarantine, and my litter delivery got delayed. I still scoop regularly, but the remaining litter had obviously been less effective in containing the odor.
Since then, I've had a double-buffer for cat litter supply.
So the litter acts as a trapping agent by desiccating the waste. Only occasionally (usually when we're lazy about cleaning) does the litter stink.
The smells the cat cares about are its pheromones/scent. Cats are highly smell-oriented (they don't taste food as much as smell it), so venting all that cat-smell outside could cause the cat to find other places to mark.
I get what you're saying, but IME cats are more likely to start hunting for shoebins and handbags to pee in when the litter box is too dirty...not when it smells too fresh. They're pretty anal about keeping clean.
In any case, there is more at stake here than scent-- do mind that the ammonia vapors from cat urine are toxic and can lead to hard-to-diagnose respiratory and psychological issues. A dirty litter box will also breed toxoplasmosis spores (dessication actually makes this issue worse-- dry spores are more easily spread when disturbed).
You really don't want standing organic waste in your home if you can avoid it. It doesn't benefit you or your cat.
Blows my mind how many people let it go for days and days and then complain. Literally sub-20-seconds every morning to scoop into a small office garbage can (with a foot pedal) fitted with a plastic bag. The garbage can controls the smell, and every few days you toss the plastic bag in the garbage. Done and done.
I don’t know much about LitterRobor, but I must say, as an expert in cats (yup, don’t ask), that if you have the money and the room (best place is in the laundry room or next to your washing machine): CatGenie is the way to go...(https://www.catgenie.com/)
I’m not affiliated or involved in any way, it’s just an amazing product, from what looks like a great company, that has not-as-good SEO skills and (I would guess) is enjoying success enough that they dont need to be so agressive.
In any case, it’s a cat-owning disruptive item if you make it work for your cat: as any robot litter, it takes some training.
I litteraly don’t change the litter ever. I add more of their recycled washable granules once a year and, around every 4 months, one box of the product that washes them.
It wasn’t talked in any of the threads, so I couldn’t resist sharing.
Maybe our household and cats are an exception and lots of other people had a lot of problem with it. Or maybe people just don’t know how amazing this thing is :-)
I’m rooting for the latter.
In our home, it clearly succeed in wiping what the article start with as the big ticket item: the smell.
For the rest of the blog post, I do believe there’s solution but they all depends on the cat :-)
We have more problem with the air of our small dog, than with our persian-hairy cat...(and thanks robot vacuum cleaners!)
Doesn't this have the same problem as City Kitty where toxoplasma gondii infiltrates water supplies since treatment plants cannot neutralize it? This particular virus is known to be harmful to marine life and other mammals.
You can plug the ‘waste water outlet’ where you see fit. We use our washer’s, which in our city, is the waste water system, thats goes into the waste water recycling plant which doesnt mix with the ‘clean water’ cycle.
In any case, it is WAY more filtering that if we were using classical litter granule that would be then send to a landfill where those same bacterias and viruses would fest and infiltrate the soil.
It is an interesting debate to have though. It probably depends how your waste water is processed.
I’ve had both the Cat Genie and the Litter Robot. The Cat Genie takes forever to cycle, so you’re out of luck if your cat likes to go pee and then come back a few minutes later to poop. Mine also eventually stopped doing such a great job cleaning the pellets, and it would then fill the house with the aroma of baked cat shit.
Litter Robot is faster and simpler, much preferred.
Get two large tupperware containers. One that fits the litter box. Other for food and water. Cut a hole in them, cat sized, about two inches above the bottom so there’s a lip. I found a jigsaw worked best.
You can then stack these and move them freely and put stuff on them. But they do a glorious job containing litter and food that wants to follow the cats out.
Something about the tone of this article rubs me the wrong way and makes the owner appear to see his cats as being solely for his own pleasure rather than for the mutual pleasure of being companions in each others' lives. One example:
> [The furminator] was absolutely amazing at removing fur from the cats (on areas broad and unbony enough to support the comb), and they liked it, but it left them less soft. I did not get these cats to have them at less than their maximum softness.
I've lived with folks who would unironically say "I bought you so you would love me!!!" while pinning the cat down to pet it, while the cat was under obvious duress.
There is definitely a non-negligible fraction of pet owners who do not empathize whatsoever with their pets, treating them instead as playthings for their own amusement.
The Furminator is for long-haired cats, and is not the only brush/comb you should have. I use it to remove excess fur, then I use a soft wire brush to groom and distribute skin oil. The Maine Coons love the Furminator, the Siamese don't like it and don't need it.
Furminators can leave bald spots. They are basically half of a set of hair trimmer blades.
Just because the cats like it doesn't mean it is good for them.
That said I do use mine, and the cats love it, but I have to use multiple other brushes after to get rid of residual hair the furminator stirs up, or else I am 100% guaranteed fur balls a few hours later.
I'm a cat owner and never had a problem with smell. No one coming into my house mentioned anything about smell. I circulate air in my house every day and clean the litterbox ever day. I'm not sure why cats would cause any smell.
And to add to this: yes I think cat ownership is very worth it. It's basically an on-demand pleasure source that you can use as long as you want, whenever you want. Just curl up into the soft kitty and feel him purring, awesome!
What's the smell, is it urine or poo, or the smell of litter? I would guess yeah it'd probably smell a little like the litter, but I can't see why it'd smell like urine or poo, I can't even smell it when smell the litterbox itself. Maybe depends on which kind of litter you use, mine definitely masks smell. I use Arm&Hammer litter.
urine mostly. the poop dries up pretty quick. but urine scent sticks around. my downstairs neighbour is bad at clean-up routine, you can smell it on the hallway outside of the apartment…
> And to add to this: yes I think cat ownership is very worth it. It's basically an on-demand pleasure source that you can use as long as you want, whenever you want. Just curl up into the soft kitty and feel him purring, awesome!
If your cat is anything like mine, it is on demand for them...
When they don't want to play they climb in the highest place that they can and look down on me and my frustrated attempts to convince them to get down for play or food.
My cat used to do this (but with low places, he hides in places like cupboards etc, he always figures out a way to open them) but he sorta stopped doing it once I started playing with him during the day too. We used to play only at night, because you know I had to go to work during the day. But due to COVID I started playing with him during my lunch break and he usually hangs out next to me the entire day now.
It goes without saying they might wanna be alone every once in a while... I think that's normal cat behavior.
When my cat is on my desk, I pick her up and put her on my lap. (Getting paid to work while a cat is on your lap? Sweeeeeet.) Of course, she doesn't stay. She climbs back onto the desk. So I put her on my lap again. After about three times, she either stays (yay!) or climbs down onto the floor (bummer, but at least I can work).
Yes, climbing is key - cats love vertical play and hang out. Routines are also very key. My cat is like a clock now. Never tried YT for more than 1m with cat - does that even work?
My cat can watch squirrel videos for half an hour. I find it works well when the tablet is vertical, not flat on the ground. He play with the progress bar as well (probably not intentional, but he did manage to fastforward until the squirrel came back in the screen again).
Every time I go through a unit (20 lbs) of cat litter, I dump the litter, clean and bleach the box, and rinse the hell out of it. Then, I place new litter. I'd say, approximately once ever 1.5 months.
Regarding smell, consider trying a raw meat diet. I use Purrform (UK) but there are similar in other countries.
I was a sceptic, but since converting to raw meat diet, there is almost no poop smell except when I feed too many treats. Living in a small London flat, this has been a game changer.
Obviously there are risks with raw meat diets and they aren't the cheapest. Do your research, understand the potential issues, choose a quality vendor, make sure you keep up to date with parasite treatment. All that being said, my cat seems to enjoy the food more than any other high quality food I've tried, and is as fit and healthy as he's ever been.
>The term 'BARF' describes so-called 'biologically appropriate raw food'. This feeding method is appropriate for the key reason that cats are carnivorous by nature. Raw food gives them just that – lots of fresh meat. In contrast to cooking your own cat food, BARF portions are given out raw and are not cooked or seared beforehand. However, this has also led to criticism of raw food, which is mostly unhealthy for humans and can lead to stomach upsets and intolerances. Does the same not also apply for cats?
We never have any problems with waste smell for our cat. Dr. Elsey's litter and a scooping out each morning is all it takes for us. We use a litter genie, this is key because it air-tightly stores the nuggets, which a regular garbage bin won't do. There's really no smell unless the little bugger leaves his nuggets without ANY sort of burial. Even then, it's a mild smell, I mask up, no problemo.
I sympathize with the Litter Robot experience. It's painfully close to being perfect if you can invest in its price and physical size. Relatively speaking, it works far better than perhaps any other complex automated mechanical consumer product I've ever used, but that's a low bar. It gets stuck mid-cycle randomly, so you have to remember to give it a look a couple times a day, and you still may not catch it before your cat decides to take matters into their own hands. Because this is the only major problem, I was highly motivated to try every suggestion out there in fixing it, but nothing worked. It's truly a shame.
Two data points: our cat's poop doesn't smell bad at all when she's eaten homemade food, while if we feed her canned food or dry food, it smells stereotypically bad.
Also, cats don't necessarily knock things over just because they don't have access to the outdoors. Our indoor cat is very careful and has never knocked anything over intentionally in her life.
I have the previous generation of the litter robot for 6+ years now, and the only problem I ever had with it is that on uneven surface it might be tricky to readjust the sensor, which you have to do once in a few months.
Apart from that all my dealing with cat poop is once per week: 1) pull the robot tray, 2) replace the bag, 3) run a cycle ones to ensure sensor works properly.
Yes, I have the previous generation too (the one that looks like a globe mounted on top of a donut), and 'getting stuck' is something that has not happened in 6 years of ownership.
The only issue I have had with it is that the weight sensor gradually drifted and became miscalibrated, so my cat no longer triggered the timer when stepping on it; it turned out the pressure sensor is adjusted by a washer on a screw, and it had come a little too lose (=too heavy requirement).
One thing that helped my allergies a lot was getting a robot vacuum that cleans up the hair a few times a week. I'm definitely not taking the time to vacuum the whole place three times a week so it's awesome (bobsweep pethair vision)
Also, I noticed that I get used to a new cat after about 6-12 months which is pretty interesting.
Of all the problems I've had owning a cat, the location of the litterbox has been the biggest difficulty for me - without the space of a dedicated small closet, it seems to be unsolvable
A project I've had in the back of my mind is to make a little outdoor contained porch area for it. That way it always gets vented. It would be a bit of an expensive project although.
Some great thoughts here, but I just wanted to clarify that Chewy.com does warn you via email several days before autoships happen. (I've been using autoship for close to a year now.)
Sucks that she had problems with the Litter Robot. I love mine, and it's only malfunctioned once in the last several years. And for the fur, just get a Roomba.
I thought the same thing when I was reading the article. Although I have read about many people having trouble with their littler robot, that’s not something I have experienced frequently. I have the 3rd generation litter robot, and it has malfunctioned exactly twice in three years. I empty it once a week, and my cats love it.
Why not? Because an Internet article said it might, possibly be a bad idea? I never said cats were human. I don't wash my cat. We don't shower together. What makes you think I wrote any of that?
None of the items listed in that article have happened in my experience to an actual real-world cat that I have seen. The article is full of suppositions. There are no actual facts listed.
The first thing that I noticed in that article were all the pictures of toilet paper that cats had ripped off of the toilet roll. All one has to do is turn the roll in the other direction, and cats no longer do that. But, the writer seemed less interested in information than in filling words for a story.
Those are links to Dear Joan columns and the Seattle PU that don't apply to my septic system that is large enough and capable of handling this. Water from my toilets goes through a home recycling system. Pregnant women who drink water at my house are not susceptible to toxoplasmosis.
People didn't invent cats, who have been self-burying their feces for a long time. Seattle and the municipalities in your links may not be configured to handle cats, but people have known how to compost cat feces for a long time without withering the vegetables and poisoning pregnant women.
I did not know this as a potential risk of flushing cat feces in the toilet. But it also seems that cats defecating outside is likely a more significant contributor to Toxoplasmosis in wildlife.
-cat is obssessed with plastic bags whenever he wants attention and ends up wearing them like a cape trailing it through the house causing havoc.
-cat likes to knock over your breakable things just cause it likes to see them smash
-wake up at 2 in the morning to some weird noises only to find the cat spiderman-ing up the screen on the window because some rats or something were outside
-on the note of two in the morning, that's of course the cats favourite time to run around the house meowing on the top of his lungs, just because.
-if you have a cat and get a puppy, get ready for that puppy to start walking on window sills, the back of the couch, and even up on the coffee table even if it's over 50lbs and clumsy as hell, cause the cat does it.
-Oh, you were 5 minutes late feeding the cat, well have fun with non stop fucking around for the rest of the day or night
-made some steak, fish, chicken, even salad...and turned your back for a second, well that cat's gonna be all up in that, as a bonus, maybe he'll knock it onto the ground so him and the dogs can feast.
But despite all this...and more, still love the furry little bastard.