Here's the abstract for the article itself[1], translated by Google:
It is now common belief that hackers are saboteurs, if not real criminals. Talking about ethical hacker can then play even ironic. This article attempts to shed light on their history, their true identity and their "philosophy", clearly distinguishing them from the cracker, illegal operators. Investigating the patterns of life and intellectual pursuits hacker, based on creativity and sharing, it is discussed to be compatible with a Christian vision of life. Without unduly compare the hacker community and Christian community, it is concluded as Christians and hackers today, in a world devoted to the logic of profit, they still have much to be, as is clear from the experience of hackers who make their faith a pulse of their creative work.
Wow that's a very interesting spin on the morality of hacking. Maybe the priest should resign and become the PR person for the hacking community? ;p
I can understand the point made by the priest, but I wonder if he'd say the same about anarchists? Since just about all governments these days are corrupt and unsympathetic towards the plight of their constituency, then you would think the priest would also congratulate those who are philosophically and actively opposed to these un-Godly governments? Except...
All is fine and "Godly" until hackers or anarchists engage in destructive behavior, which is not in line with the teachings of Jesus. This Robin Hood idea of stealing from the rich, or even destroying property because it's owned by "evil", is wrong because both are forms of violence, which Jesus was against for obvious reasons - both acts violate individuals. Whether or not these individuals deserved it or are "evil" is inconsequential: two wrongs don't make a right. So I'm kind of disappointed that this disclaimer wasn't brought up by the priest, if at least towards the end of his comment. There exist more positive ways to combat negative forms of competition or scarcity issues created by ownership of property; violation of individuals doesn't need to be the answer. Although seeing the sketchy and hypocritical history of Catholics, I shouldn't be too disappointed by the omission...
I'm not really an anarchist, but I do think it's important to distinguish between living breathing human beings, as opposed to the social and cultural structures we impose upon each other. I am not my property. You cannot 'violate' me by stealing or destroying the things I 'own'.
I like to remind my Christians friends (and those who aren't friends) the ideals of Free Software - of setting people free and allowing them to help each other by means of giving them the software along with the resources required to improve upon it and share the results is very Christian. As much as the values of proprietary software, of enslaving your users and imprisoning them in a dependency relationship easy to abuse are completely against those same Christian values.
It's fun to watch their heads explode.
More recently, I have enjoyed quoting the "we fight for the users" line from Tron. Mostly because we really do.
Shoddy reporting. This is like claiming that the White House is pro-hacker because of an interview that appeared on Massachusetts Public Radio
La Civiltà Cattolica is not a Vatican magazine. It is a Jesuit magazine. And I highly doubt that the magazine itself endorses Fr. Antonio Spadaro's opinion.
I find it hilarious that a Catholic order thinks there's anything Catholic (as opposed to catholic) about hacking. The open-source community is de-centralized and libertarian-to-anarchist, while the Catholic Church is built on blind faith in a central authority in deciding what is right for all (even when that "right" is protecting child rapists).
The only thing that could be funnier is if they quoted Eric S. Raymond, author of The Cathedral and the Bazaar, which talked about that aspect of hacker culture, and who is an unapologetic atheist Wiccan.
In their passionate commitment to creating, and their openness to sharing ideas, hackers see their online exploits as “a form of participation in the ‘work’ of God in creation,”
Given that logical reasoning is usually a strong trait common to hackers, it's a bit ironic to have the Vatican attempt to speak for hackers. Perhaps someone should email them this poll http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1486594.
It is unfortunate that 'religion' and 'belief in god' are so inextricably entangled in American society.
Too often, what people call 'religion' is really an organization that seeks to use the existence and/or potential favor of a supernatural being to impose external controls on 'believers' (which is to say if you don't do what I say you'll go to hell kinds of things).
There are folks who believe in the existence of a God but are not trapped by Junior High syllogisms like "Can He make a rock so big He can't move it?"
Brent Walters [1] is one such person who has spent a lot of time critically examining belief in God, why he believes, and what he believes, and more importantly what he does not believe about God. He has tracked down sources, and copies of manuscripts from around the world that help inform and educate as to what was going when they were written and to help understand the context of the writing in that light.
I think Hacker's embody a very powerful concept which is what the Vatican (and the Dali Lama) really cherish which is the search for truth, through rigor and reason. When a device or program misbehaves a hacker wants to know why it misbehaves and whether or not that behavior is normal or abnormal. Its the truth underlying the observation that they seek. This is why debugging can be so rewarding, not only do you fix the problem but you often develop a deep understanding of the how the environment provoked the problem in the first place and what needed to be true for the problem to not occur in the future.
Truth seeking is a requirement for hackers. As it is for those who would become enlightened.
Did you just say the Vatican really cherishes truth, and the search for it? Are we talking about a different Vatican or a different definition of truth?
While I'm not myself Catholic... I disagree that celebrating hackers is "attempting to speak for them." Also, there are plenty of religious hackers, logical Catholics, Catholic hackers, etc. so your assertion of some sort of conflict between logical reasoning and the Vatican seems rather bigoted.
Bigoted? I simply made an objective observation. None of the thousands of religions of the world stand up particularly well to strict logic and reasoning. The very nature of faith is belief without objective proof. I did not attack faith.
Hacker News is obviously home to a very large sample size of "hackers", and the poll I linked clearly appears to support my observation. I never said there were no religious hackers, just as it can't be said there are no religious scientists.
Also, I would call "hackers see such and such" as speaking for, not celebrating hackers.
How ironic that you linked to such a non-scientific, inherently flawed poll (ie not a random sample of HN readers) to argue in favor of science and objectivity. Just sayin! ;-)
No, I didn't link to a non-scientific, inherently flawed poll to argue in favor of science and objectivity.
I suggested two things: first, that the opinionated people at the Vatican would probably do well to take note of the results of that particular poll -- for whatever it's worth; second, that the poll appeared to support my observation. I never said it was scientific. I would very much welcome the conducting of an actual scientific poll on the subject.
I have other reasons to argue in favor of science and objectivity, which certainly don't stem from a Web poll.
> "The very nature of faith is belief without objective proof."
It's only about the last 150 years, within a small subset of Christianity, that faith has meant "belief without proof" or "belief without reason". Throughout the rest of Jewish and Christian history, as well as in other classical European and Middle Eastern writings, faith has been used to mean "acting upon a belief you hold for good reason, and continuing to act in the face of emotional difficulty". The classical definition of faith, which is still used by most serious religious scholars, is the triumph of reason and evidence over temporary emotion. (Previously discussed at http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2366932 )
> None of the thousands of religions of the world stand up particularly well to strict logic and reasoning
Obligatory [citation needed]. Or, rather, [many thousands of citations needed].
If you ever happen to be in my neighborhood, join me for dinner and you can do your best to demonstrate how my particular religion doesn't stand up well to strict logic and reasoning.
"The Vatican" isn't an authority on this, nor is this article connected to the Vatican in any substantive way. Fr. Antonio might be an authority due to studying hacker culture, but it isn't clear.
It didn't occur to me the two groups were on such natural speaking terms.
So if I talk to a few Catholic priests who tell me the priesthood is about molesting underage altar boys, should I then go out and claim that is how Catholic priests see the priesthood?
Yes, you should. It's unlikely that you will be able to talk to several priests who would all say that, but if you do, by all means let the public know that this is an opinion shared by these Catholic priests.
P.S.: I think you may be forgetting that "Hackers believe in God" can mean any of "All hackers believe in God," "Hackers tend to believe in God" or "There are hackers who believe in God." From the context, it seems most likely to me that the latter is the OP's intended usage.
Well, now that's the crux of our disagreement. If I say white men are gay, I don't think anyone will argue that's a neutral statement (to which nobody will take issue) as it can be easily interpreted as meaning I only spoke to a handful of white men, and it's only them I'm speaking about.
I think I'd rather be the kind of hacker that breaks things, than the kind of hacker who gets praise from a man who employs thousands of child molesters and whose company has been responsible for more atrocities than hitler, stalin, and mao could have been capable of in their lucid wet dreams.
Okay, the church is not perfect, but Hitler Stalin and Mao did inconceivably more evil in a few years than anything out of the church in the past century or two. What atrocities are you referring to?
It is now common belief that hackers are saboteurs, if not real criminals. Talking about ethical hacker can then play even ironic. This article attempts to shed light on their history, their true identity and their "philosophy", clearly distinguishing them from the cracker, illegal operators. Investigating the patterns of life and intellectual pursuits hacker, based on creativity and sharing, it is discussed to be compatible with a Christian vision of life. Without unduly compare the hacker community and Christian community, it is concluded as Christians and hackers today, in a world devoted to the logic of profit, they still have much to be, as is clear from the experience of hackers who make their faith a pulse of their creative work.
[1] http://www.laciviltacattolica.it/it/quaderni/articolo/2546/e...