Thinking about having a kid. There's no way I would ever have a kid in my current US state. Not saying anyone has done it well vs rest of the world, but there are clearly states (and counties/cities) that have done a much better job at protecting human life than others.
As someone who has lived in the US South for most of my childhood and adult life, I truly don't think it's responsible to have children here if you have another choice. I know a lot of people don't, but I do and I'm out of here.
I think people have felt the same about having children throughout most of history.
Do you want a child born into slavery?
Do you want a child subject to a totalitarian government?
Do you want a child born into extreme poverty or famine?
I feel like if you want to have a kid you have one and you deal with whatever adversity comes along.
Take the opportunity to prepare your child to deal with the world that exists regardless of the circumstances. The more children that grow up with thoughtful parents that prepare them to face problems in the more possibility the world will be a better place in the future.
I'm sure my argument isn't well thought at being that it's 4:30pm on a Friday, but I really feel like regardless of the issues we face in society today we are living in the best time to be alive ever and if you have the means to care for a child, and you want children, there's nothing that should stop you from having one.
> I feel like if you want to have a kid you have one and you deal with whatever adversity comes along.
The thing is, it's not only you who will be dealing with "whatever adversity comes along". Your child will also have to deal with it, and just because you're okay with dealing with it doesn't mean they will be too.
Forcing a child into existence when you think it's likely they will have a negative life, just because "you want to have a kid", is an incredibly selfish decision to make. We shouldn't encourage people to take a gamble on their potential children's lives just because they want a kid.
This argument is unconvincing and really annoying. I don’t care about the calculus other people had to go through to have children in other times because I’m not them. Every human makes decisions based on the pressures they experience in their own life, pointing out that times were worse elsewhere is just annoying pedantry.
And of course, part of my point was I’m dubious about having a kid in America. As in, I’d be open to going expat and raising a child somewhere I think is safer and more stable.
This. Think of the marshmallow study where long-term planning kids turned out richer than the short-term minded ones. We need to push back against the Idiocracy mindset.
It is our prerogative as the less reckless to breed and propagate our genes, and teach our culture to our young. As you mentioned, the force of nature is against that, so we need campaigns, perhaps by the State, for the “careful thinkers” to breed and hold control over culture.
Not only that, it selects for children that have learned to trust other people's promises. If you have learned that a promised reward will never materialize, the rational choice is to take the treat now.
If you believe that your child will have a net-negative life, but you have one anyway (and force them to live under the horrible conditions you recognized!), just to balance out the more-reckless children, I question your ethical framework.
It doesn't seem ethical at all to bring new beings into an existence you acknowledge to be negative, and thrust the responsibility of fixing the world onto them.
You probably also don’t want to propagate the gene for “I don’t really want to have kids, but I’m still going to because I think I’m better than the people who are already having kids.”
Not sure I agree. More like, arguing that cultural and inherited values and behaviors can result in changes to the gene pool. Not that people are generically inferior, but that their values can be propagated when tied to a higher birthrate, with potentially net negative outcomes for society at large.
The exhortations of early Christian leaders against birth control are thought to be in part an effort to ensure the faithful flock grew at a faster rate than rival religions. A similar concept to the one I am trying to frame in the above paragraph, but not one that I would call eugenics which is an utterly flawed and morally abhorrent concept.
Mass killing of people based on criteria? Let’s not do that.
Reducing opportunities and quality of life for people we don’t want to breed? Let’s not do that.
Forced sterilization of populations? No.
Rewards for voluntary sterilization? (This selects based on socioeconomic status and moral values.) I don’t like this. You might be surprised to hear this is happening in India right now.
Fines for having too many children? (Again, this selects on socioeconomic status and moral values.) I don’t like this. You’re probably already aware this is happening in China.
Removing existing monetary or tax-break incentives that encourage having more children? We have a lot of child support/relief programs in Australia. They cause a sort of inverse selection by socioeconomic and moral values. I’m not sure how I feel about them. They really do improve the quality of life for the parents and the children, but they make having a child a less scary decision, which undoubtedly removes some of the hesitation that may have otherwise made a more reckless person think twice.
Researching genetics, culture and education and building programs that help people understand how nature and nurture will affect their unborn or young children. YES! These programs should be available to everyone. It should be mandatory to get a “child report” before having a child. But the exact contents of the child report should not be available to anyone but the prospective parents. (Aggregate anonymized should be available to all, though, to help with society-level planning.)
Wide-spread education on life planning? Openly marketing “Don’t have children before you’re ready!” ? Researching happiness and success metrics and publicizing the results in an accessible way, to help people realize the consequences of having children? Yes, yes, yes!
mrmuagi’s comment captures it well. If you look at a child in isolation, there are definitely preferable genes, cultural aspects, and educational aspects. For example, you want them to have a college-level degreee. You want them to not have asthma or eczema.
There will be children. How can we sway the forces of nature — in a way that most of us are okay with — toward preferable genes, culture, and education?
If we don’t steer the boat, we may not like where it goes.
As someone who has lived in the US South for most of my childhood and adult life, I truly don't think it's responsible to have children here if you have another choice. I know a lot of people don't, but I do and I'm out of here.