I think a questions that’s going to pop up is, why does delivery work for a company like Dominos’s (vertical integration) but not Postmates (horizontal)?
I've worked as pizza delivery. The tipping and per-delivery payments to drivers is why it works.
Roughly speaking, a delivery driver in my area nearly a decade ago earned roughly $20/hr after gas and car expenses, half in hourly wages @ state minimum and the other half in tips + $1/delivery payment. They also took about 3 deliveries an hour when fully utilized, which wasn't for 100% of their shift. The wait time got used productively, combination of answering phones, making pizzas, or at worst folding boxes.
This combination means that you're employing people at a significnatly-above-minimum-wage level, but their excess time waiting for deliveries gets paid at minimum wage and used to do customer service. And in the worst case when things are so absolutely slammed that there is no downtime, well, that's when you have to let phones ring (or answer briefly with "thank you for calling, our wait time is currently two hours, would you like to place an order?"). Plus these drivers know the store and the area well and from that alone should be significantly more competent at resolving issues - often enough someone calling in about their order will end up talking to the person who just tried and failed to make the delivery.
With Postmates and the like, though, the time spent waiting for a delivery has no useful work to fill the time. It's also not paid, but the gig has to justify itself economically, which means that drivers have to make up for it through increased per-delivery payments.
Basically, the difference is that store-employed drivers can do useful work while waiting to engage in deliveries, while app drivers can't. This is a very significant efficiency gain.
Corona changed tipping completely. Tips are now done through the platform if at all and no longer in cash to the delivery person reducing the chance that the money actually ends up where it is supposed to go.
I never had any problem getting my credit card tips as a store-employed driver. The apps have done some of that kind of bullshit, but at the end of my shift at the store I'd get paid my credit card tips in cash. Only difference is that credit card tips got added to total pay for payroll tax withholding, while cash tips relied on your own record-keeping for tax reporting purposes.
What about in countries where tipping is not normal? I live in the UK and lots of small family-run fish and chip shops and takeaways offer delivery, along with the bigger chains like Dominos.
Like the person you responded to said, employees working for those stores can do useful work when they aren’t delivering. Here the Domino’s are delivered by bicyclists and those people are doing work for the store when they’re waiting for deliveries. That work justifies them being paid a wage. For Postmates et al., those drivers aren’t doing anything useful during their downtime. They have nothing to sweep or dishes to clean etc. Postmates et al need to pay them enough to make it worthwhile for them, which gets passed onto the customers.
Personally, I’ve ordered a ton of food delivery lately from places I’ve wanted to try but never found time to go. But, I don’t order from them more than once, so those businesses aren’t making a customer out of me.
Yes but they said 50% of their income comes from tips and a $1 delivery fee.
I assume tips are generally more than $1 (I may be wrong).
Maybe it’s just not productive to compare different countries’ eating habits in the end, but it seems to me GP is saying that tips make up a meaningful proportion of delivery drivers’ income.
My bad, I misunderstood, but I’m not sure how tips are relevant.
It seems like the GP(?, the first poster in this chain) was saying that delivery works for places like Domino’s which hires and pays their own couriers a standard wage. That wage is already accounted for in Domino’s pricing, and since that employee has to show up to work even when there aren’t deliveries they can be put to work. Thus, there are no additional costs to Domino’s as everything is presumably priced taking this into account.
When you outsource your delivery, the company being hired takes a cut. That company (Postmates etc) need to use this cut to pay their couriers. Postmates can only ask for so much before the store just says no, it’s not worth it. Those couriers need to be paid enough that it’s worth it for them to keep delivering. So, Postmates scales up to make up for it in bulk by taking losses by offering deals. Those deals don’t last forever, and customers like me only order because of the deals will just go away.
Yes, tips will be higher then $1. But thats only germane as a way of the deliverer receiving an average income thats higher than the minimum wage. In locales without prevalent tipping Im going to guess thats made up for with a higher wage or work piece pricing. From the competitive business side the real difference is in higher worker productivity & efficiency for the vertically integrated shop.
Tips averaged between $3 and $4 per run, and I got 3 runs an hour at peak. That's more than half if you add all that up, but not all time is peak time, so it averaged closer to 50/50. Plus I subtracted out fuel and car costs from the delivery side of things to net stuff out.
Our office is next to a managed kitchen,which cooks for 6-10 different restaurants,who mainly operate online only,via Deliveroo and etc.The service is very popular,so the road is always packed with scooter riders. However, the downtime seems to be substantial for the riders. These are the ones things I'd be going out and observing if I was someone with tons of money to invest in those companies.
I'm making two points here, and it's worth separating out.
First is pure utilization. App drivers get paid while on the road and while idle, store drivers get paid hourly while on the clock and usually have some useful work to do. The average pay of road & idle time has to be worth the driver's while, and the store driver has more valuable work they can do, so the economics make more sense.
Second is the largely tip-driven pay differential while on the road vs in the store. 3 deliveries an hour at my store, more at places that trade off service times for throughput. Average of $3-4 per run, with a tendency for higher tips for customers further from the store. (Funny example: there was this one house at the exact furthest corner of the store's delivery area. They were extremely nice and tipped like $7. These facts are not coincidental.) But this basically becomes a cross subsidy of in-store work by tips, and there was a decent chunk of tension between drivers and management over this. Usually it took the form of "do your assigned side work and then you can go home", and since doing dishes was the "bad" pay of the shift, this disincentivized malingering too.
As far as I can tell for non-tipping countries, drivers tend to use employer-provided vehicles and fuel, so it turns into a more straightforward hourly job and loses a good chunk of the piece-work and quality incentives.
The difference between delivery people that work for the restaurant and those that don't are VAST. The first is invested (for a number of reasons) in getting the food to you quickly and in good condition. The latter group simply doesn't, and the restaurant gets blamed for it.
You raise an interesting point. Maybe with uber the goal is to integrate delivery work force with ride work force to improve utilization of drivers/deliverers. Horizontal, but complimentary.
In many markets they are different vehicles, scooters/(e)bikes for food delivery, cars for passenger transport.
Even in markets where cars are used a lot for food delivery; I can't see it really working very well. It's hard enough trying to schedule food delivery drivers being in the right place at the right time (often waiting a while for food to be ready if the order got delayed in the kitchen). Trying to then piece together humans going places in between seems virtually impossible.
However, if you allow yourself to simplify the problem, it seems there is really no physical difference from a food delivery and a ride. Pick up at one location, drop off at another--maybe with extra time required to get out of the car. In both cases, there is a limited allowable waiting threshold.
So if you can merge those work forces, you could attain higher utilization. The main problem I see though is that both sectors surge at roughly the same times, so it isn't quite as complimentary as you might initially hope.
Also, in the vertical model, the profit is shared with two parties -- the restaurant and delivery agent. In the horizontal model, there is an extra party which needs to be paid -- Postmate/Uber/DoorDash/etc. Presumably, the app experience makes it worth to pay more for the delivery, to pay this third party, but that has not yet been the case.
Also, once one party owns the relationship (e.g., the app), they can try and take more and more from the other parties while putting more burden/risk on the other parties.
You're assuming that domino's makes a profit on food delivery rather than breaking even on it.
But domino's also makes the food, so if they break even on the deliver, that's fine, they made money on the food. Scaling the delivery part of the business also scales the food part.
If you aren't making the food, you have to make money on the delivery alone because scaling your delivery service scales someone else's food business. You're essentially competing with your suppliers (restaurants with their own delivery), and they don't need to make money on the product. That's a hard position to be in.
I think Domino's margins blow typical restaurant margins out of the water. I don't have hard numbers, but worked a variety of delivery jobs from 2010-2014. Domino's was the only place with the attitude that their food was worth pennies to produce.
Most places didn't offer discounts to their employees, not even for food that was mistakenly made and had to be trashed. Domino's was the only one that would just allow employees to make themselves a pizza for lunch or to take home for dinner (but no feta cheese, we had limited quantities of that).
Call and complain about any Domino's order, even over the dumbest thing, and they're supposed to give you a credit for a new order. It was drilled into my head as an employee. If someone complains, give them something free, and they're pretty much guaranteed to order from Domino's again in the future more times than they would if you had never made a mistake.
Also an individual driver could do far more deliveries than an app-based delivery worker can. The routing software they used at the time was really good, and would group 2 nearby orders for one trip by a delivery driver. There was never any waiting unless there were no orders at all. From what I hear with my friends who work UberEats/GrubHub, a lot of time is wasted at the restaurant waiting for the food to finish. McDonalds (at least in my area) is a big offender, marking orders as ready for pickup when they haven't even started making them yet. Having all food coming from a single storefront, and being able to take multiple deliveries at once is a big deal.
As for why places like Pizza Hut and Burger King can't do it as well, I guess it comes down to the tech and management. When Burger King tried offering first-party delivery services it was a massive shit show. I worked there for a bit, as they were the only store paying drivers 100% of the delivery fee. It ended up being a terrible deal because I would average 1-2 deliveries per hour during the lunch and dinner "rush", while a great day at Domino's could have me doing 10 per hour. Pizza Hut wasn't as terrible as when BK attempted it, but I feel like it only worked because they have a limited menu and not because they're actually competent.
I delivered for Pizza Hut a dozen+ years ago. The store I was at only did delivery and take out. We didn't have routing software, but it was really easy to divvy up and group orders looking at a map. I'm sure it would be more difficult if your software wasn't great, volumes weren't high enough, or just not having the vertical integration.
Also, with vertical integration drivers can help cut, box, and confirm orders so staff can focus on other things--or not depending on how busy they are.
I worked Sunday afternoons just me and a manager. I would share responsibilities of cooking, prep, and delivering, they would cover the phone lines, prep, and cook as needed. It would normally be quiet, but we might randomly get a large youth group or party order while also prepping for Sunday evening football rush. The fungibility of labor seemed better than the burstability of delivery, at least in that case.
A cheap pizza from Aldi is £1. A regular pizza with some toppings and maybe meat is £2-3 in most supermarkets. Could be £4 in higher end supermarkets.
You see where this is going. Pizzas are worth nothing, supermarkets are making money on these (it's not allowed to sell an item at a loss in Europe). Domino produces for £1-2 and sell for £10-20.
The accepted number in the restaurant industry is that food cost must be less than 30% of the listed price. Pizzas are pushing this to an extreme by selling for double digits while they're so cheap.
You can't really compare a cheap frozen pizza to a chain pizza. They are bigger, for one.
I've read before that a Hot-n-Ready from Little Caeser's is sold for $5.55 but costs $3.50 in just ingredients. They don't make any money on those.
The breadsticks that they sell for $3.99, the cup of marinara for $1.99, the $13 veggie pizza and the $15 supreme pizza is where the money is made. Do you think there's an extra $10 in toppings on those supreme pizzas? Don't forget the bottles of soda..
That was the price for fresh, not frozen, and they're not small. Smaller than the large £20 pizza from the chain, sure, but not necessarily smaller than the £10-15 one.
The link is talking about a $11 pizza, that was briefly on sale for $5 (and still making a profit). It's not a $5 pizza.
Routing optimization only really works at massive scale, otherwise waiting times are just getting too long. Chain's like Dominos or Pizza Hut have the advantage of a single source, all managed by the same company, using the same tools, systems an processes. Companies like Uber Eat or Deliveroo are using multiple small sources (restaurants) to deliver multiple small destinations with small order numbers. Can work, once everythig is automated as ch as possible (near impossible without an operating system for small restaurants) and at huge scale (locally, within normal delivery driver's ops radius). All despite competition. Without taking expenses like marketing and so on into account. Not sure how these companies are going to make money.
This is an extremely accurate description of Dominos operations. Very few,if any,can replicate it,unless they also sell products that cost a small fraction of the end price. At least in the UK, their tech is years ahead of any other pizza join, including their biggest competitors.
They'll need to survive for 10 years losing billions annually if that is their goal. And it will take them years to scale up automated rides/food delivery even after it becomes available.
Both probably. I read an interesting article about restaurants renting in industrial areas with no dining room only doing take out. People will always want to eat somewhere nice / fun but certain franchises I could see making the switch
Domino's is built to deliver pizzas. They have streamlined the process of an order being placed, prepped, and handed off to delivery to try to make each step of the process as efficient as possible.
Do "horizontal" delivery companies have similar integration and benefit from similar efficiency?
In an ideal delivery situation, you want two things to be true: first, delivery people should be constantly moving. Second, orders should be handed off to a delivery person as soon as they are finished.
Is this achievable when delivery people are routed to new pick-up locations for each delivery? You want your delivery person to arrive at the restaurant right as the meal is finished -- if they arrive early, your delivery person is idle and your costs go up; if they arrive late, the food is cold and your customers are dissatisfied.
Restaurants with successful delivery components can solve this by tweaking their number of delivery people and their service areas in response to their busy-ness, so that they always have delivery people returning to pick up more food with an appropriate frequency. Have horizontal delivery companies solved these problems, either through integration with the restaurants or through some sort of big data magic?
Additionally "idle" doesn't mean quite the same thing to the vertically-integrated driver as it does to the horizontally-integrated driver. A Domino's driver who arrives at the restaurant before the pizza is ready is still a Domino's employee. The Uber driver who arrives before the McDonald's order is ready is just a dude in the lobby.
I suppose the argument goes: if anyone can approach that optimality, it's a company with a large fleet of repurposable drivers.
Being able to dispatch to a driver in motion depends on having a suitable driver available.
I'm still doubtful it can ever work, for the reasons people mentioned above. But the realistic game is that Uber becomes the new Yelp and strongarms restaurants for a share of their profit, in return for customer access / promotion. (Which I have pretty strong feelings about as an ethical business model, but that's just my opinion...)
Uber and the like already take a share of the profit, last time I chatted to a restaurant owner while waiting to pick up some food I'd ordered even Just Eat, who don't even provide delivery services, take a 15% cut of the order value. Uber/Delivery I believe are taking 20-30% of the order value, which given the margins on takeout food feels like its leaving basically nothing on the table for the actual restaurant.
Other way I see it working out is Uber gets so optimized that they can have a driver double dip with a delivery and passengers going on the same route.
Part of it I think is that Dominos only does delivery, and their product holds up well in delivery. It comes out of the oven very hot, and with an insulated bag, it can sit for a little while and still be good. If you deliver something like Thai food, it doesn't come out as hot, and there are hotter and cooler parts of the food. This doesn't taste great if it takes 20 minutes to get from the kitchen to you.
That, plus the volume, allows Dominos to send out drivers with multiple pizzas. They can calculate an optimal traveling salesman route from the store to all of the customers in the run, and then the driver comes back to the store to do it again. Also, the whole organization is built around the drivers not waiting around. Restaurants will often not have the order when the driver arrives, and they have to mess around with payment, etc for every order.
All of that makes driver productivity much greater and so the delivery cost per order is much less.
Add costs to the other points mentioned in comments.
A pizza is made for £1-2 and sold for £10-20. The margin is incredible and more than enough to pay staff and deliverers.
I personally never order pizza delivery because it's a total ripoff. Don't want to pay £20 for a pizza (or two on promotion). This is a party delivery service as far as I am concerned, only used when there are friends over (big dollars for the company for a single delivery).
The business model of Uber and Just Eat by comparison is to attempt to deliver Noodles for £10 (one meal for a lazy millennial or a couple who doesn't want to cook). It doesn't work.
I can order Chinese From halfway across the city for the same price as delivery by Dominos. The closest Dominos is 5 minute walk away. The next is a 5 minute drive. The Chinese food is 25 minutes away.
@ThrustVectoring has an excellent answer, but to add one more bit:
When you have your own delivery staff, you are planning your costs and setting your prices with all that built in. When a third party is handling deliveries (in a very non-integrated manner), it's a lot harder to consider the delivery cost as a part of the business, because the cost is being borne by a third party who is charging you an arbitrary amount that may not actually reflect delivery costs.
Since the third-party delivery companies usually take a cut for their services, restaurant owners can't plan that way. They do have choices: they can raise prices overall or they can charge more per-item for delivery orders (if the delivery platform allows it). If they do this, the restaurant owners will be fine; they'll offset any loss to the delivery company with an increase in prices (as long as this doesn't hurt non-delivery business).
The problem lies with the third-party delivery companies. They have drivers who are sitting idle during their downtime, so they have to pay them more per-delivery, essentially paying them to sit around. They have a ton of cheap VC money behind them, and VC's seem to care more about market share than profits, so they are incentivized to do deliveries at a lower price than what it actually costs. So it's no surprise that we see things like revenue of $50M on expenses of $100M. It's a race to the bottom, fueled by someone else's money. All the delivery companies must charge well below cost in order to be competitive. At some point (hopefully) people will stop investing in these companies. At that point, we'll see the final consolidated state of things, and we'll see delivery fees go up dramatically, or service quality go down quite a bit, or both.
It worked as a vertical before technology allowed it to work as a horizontal.
Now it is just a value proposition. Dominos can still make it work because the delivery is bundled with incredibly cheap to produce food. Horizontals do work and aren't going away but right now there's many players making the bet that future market position is more important than current revenue so its not making great money today.
If I buy from Domino's I pay the fixed price for my pizza + delivery fee + tip for the driver.
If I buy food from $local_restaurant via $delivery_service I pay original cost of food + whatever the food deliver service adds to the cost of the food + the delivery services fee + tip to the restaurant + tip to the driver.
I think you could say something about optimization here. When I was in college, I briefly worked as a delivery boy, and I'd often make 2-3 deliveries per trip.
