To know how long the page is, to know what state we are BEFORE we interact with it, to know that there is no such a thing as "above the fold" or other nonsense, etc.
Now allow me to ask you, with no intention to sound like an ass: why would you hide bars apart from saving 20px (which I assume was Windows' default, but let's say 100px for discussion' sake)?
The unnecessary lack of visible scroll bars is super annoying to me, too. UI fashions at the expense of clarity. And let’s not even mention scrolljacking...
Why? How often the first thing you do is look at the scroll bar and close a document because it's too short or too long?
If you're gonna read it you'll read it regardless of its length.
If you want to do anything else, like printing, you'll see the document size.
> to know what state we are BEFORE we interact with it
Why? If you open a new document you'll be at the top.
It's almost always immediately obvious that there would be more text.
If it's a previously opened document then you may be in the position you were in when you last opened it. In which case, you would remember that you're not at the beginning or end, and again it's usually immediately obvious that you're not at the beginning or end.
We come down to these facts:
- There's almost NO case that's ALWAYS improved by having always visible bars.
- Hidden bars always save screen space for more content and reduced clutter.
- Literally billions of people are fine with hidden bars (iOS, Android, Mac)
- If you need to see scroll bars, there's an option, at least on Mac.
> Why? How often the first thing you do is look at the scroll bar and close a document because it's too short or too long?
> If you're gonna read it you'll read it regardless of its length.
Something short, looking remotely interesting, I'll probably read in full. Something long, I'll probably skim to see if there's anything interesting buried in there. If I'm reading it completely, glancing at the scroll bar tells me where I am in the document so it tells me if the document is reaching its conclusion, or perhaps just going on a side note.
If you read a book, don't you first see how thick it is, and while reading sometimes watch how far in the book you are?
>> to know what state we are BEFORE we interact with it
> Why? If you open a new document you'll be at the top.
A bit later, when I have read a page or two, how far have I advanced? How much more is there to come, or not?
> It's almost always immediately obvious that there would be more text.
It's most certainly not always immediately obvious. And even when it is, it is very useful to know how much more text (or other content).
> - There's almost NO case that's ALWAYS improved by having always visible bars.
Perhaps not. But there lots of cases that are almost always improved by proper scroll bars.
> - Hidden bars always save screen space for more content and reduced clutter.
A tiny amount, certainly on today's screens.
> - If you need to see scroll bars, there's an option.
Where? I mean, are we talking about UX design in general, or do you have an explicit implementation in mind where you can optionally enable scroll bars? I don't think I've ever seen such an option, and certainly not easily accessible.
> If I'm reading it completely, glancing at the scroll bar tells me where I am in the document so it tells me if the document is reaching its conclusion, or perhaps just going on a side note.
You'll see the hidden scrollbars when you're reading through something anyway.
> A bit later, when I have read a page or two, how far have I advanced?
You'll see the hidden scrollbars as you scroll through the pages to begin with.
> do you have an explicit implementation in mind where you can optionally enable scroll bars? I don't think I've ever seen such an option, and certainly not easily accessible.
It's right there in Mac general preferences, defaulting to visible if you use a non-Apple mouse.
As in "something even a child could use"? Indeed
> Why do we even need always visible scroll bars?
To know how long the page is, to know what state we are BEFORE we interact with it, to know that there is no such a thing as "above the fold" or other nonsense, etc.
Now allow me to ask you, with no intention to sound like an ass: why would you hide bars apart from saving 20px (which I assume was Windows' default, but let's say 100px for discussion' sake)?