Fellow ADHD sufferer here to second this. Thinking about ADHD as a deficit of motivation, which is much more accurate than an attention-oriented view, tends to clarify this sort of situation.
Oh wow... you just described me with frightening accuracy. I’ve never seen my issue described so clearly and concisely. Basically, if there aren’t negative consequences for me not completing a task, my brain simply never gets motivated. It’s almost as if my brain is saying: “meh... you don’t really have to do this... so go play on Facebook some more”. If I could resolve this issue which has plagued me for years, it would revolutionize my life and career.
When in doubt always best to talk to a doc. Best case you are completely fine, but doesn't hurt checking. (The irony is that people with ADHD are probably the least likely to get up by themselves and make an appointment given that there are no consequences of not doing it lol)
The feeling can feel similar which is probably why a lot of people think they are just lazy. But ADHD is more of a reduced / lack of self-drive combined with a self-regulation + internal prioritization problem. Maybe a bit like laziness but the feeling is multiplied.
I of course have moments when I feel lazy and just don't want to do anything, but then there are the other moments when I want to do something, work on a project, practice a hobby but just don't. There is this disconnect, it's hard to explain
Best to look at other key ADHD symptoms as well like emotional regulation, rejection sensitve dysphoria, focus, (mental) hyperactivity (= your brain can't just chill), the need to constantly do something, impulsiveness (like with money), etc etc etc.
It's of course a spectrum and some people are worse in x while other people suffer more on y.
Best to talk to a doc if it affects your life. Could be ADHD, could be something else. It's very common though so admitting that there might be a problem is the first step to getting better
apathy can be part of dysexecutive syndromes, such as ADHD.
To be pedantic, apathy is lack of emotion and interest.
Often that is not the case in ADHD. The hallmark of that syndrome is the inability to follow through/self-regulate behavior/plan actions to achieve the objective they are interested in.
Anybody feels that ADHD or similar issues are often a sign that you're not doing things that you need to to be happy ? Like running after something for the wrong reasons ?
Kinda like Bukowski "don't try" ?
ps: to explain more, there were times where
a) I was slowly but surely inspired by a topic and would just keep wondering and thinking about it, 'hard' or not, it was similar to walking a mental park
b) I was motivated by desires (greatness, potential financial gains, social status, some faith that the outcome would make me feel happy) but now my feelings about them have changed so it feels pointless. I feel a lot better when doing things that have no real goal but actually procure a lightweight joy.
For instance, I used to equate more study to more possibilities and capacity to 1) create more (joy) 2) get a good job. But my experience was that these efforts weren't useful in reality. Even though I got some FP moocs, solved problems alone, I'm still stuck too often, and recruiters don't give a damn. It all erodes your happiness/ROI center.
Depression (and many other illnesses, autoimmune, hormonal deficiencies, sleep disorders, all kinds of dementia and other neurological illnesses) will produce a dysexecutive syndrome that's very similar, if not indisginuishable, from ADHD.
In your specific case you may want to read up on something called "learned helplessness". Essentially you are being conditioned by failure to quit prematurely.
That is different from ADHD. ADHD in itself is really a diagnosis of exclusion, where no clear cause can be found.
In practice, ADHD is what you have when stimulants make you get better.
If your laundry lists of symptoms (depression, sleep disorders, lack of motivation etc) get better from stimulants, count yourself lucky. Stimulants work right away, if they work at all, and have few and relatively mild side-effects.
Some of the side-effects, like weight loss, are even seen as welcome by many people. Others like having to pee more often and cold hands are relatively easy to deal with.
For comparison, antidepressants take months to show even mild positive effects; and have major side-effects.
> Essentially you are being conditioned by failure to quit prematurely.
Funny how my conclusions today are the opposite. I didn't quit early enough somehow. Well it's hard to tell, tbh, I've spent years learning hard stuff without any real benefit. So many a different course of action would make sense :)
Adhd feels like knowing how to do something and knowing you should do it, but not actually doing it. It’s like your inner drive is very weak unless there is an external consequence involved, like a deadline.
Dumb examples are
- your homework unless the deadline comes closer
- a amazon box that you know the contents of but currently don’t need it, so it stays packaged standing around until you need the item or the space
- dishes
- a todo list item that’s floating around for weeks that takes minutes to complete but has no deadline
Then at other moments something just grabs your attention and it becomes the most important thing right now even if you should be doing something else. Like finding a new tool or programming language that you really want to use immediately, or randomly cleaning your entrance area NOW even though you should be leaving for the train to make a meeting.
Adhd feels like knowing how to do something and knowing you should do it, but not actually doing it. It’s like your inner drive is very weak unless there is an external consequence involved, like a deadline.
Yes, that would be me. I know what I need to do in so many ways. But doing it? If it isn't a habit or some form of negative emotion forces me to do it, almost impossible. There are, of course, exceptions. But in general, absolutely.
Homework
Yes, same with tasks / Jira stories today.
Amazon box
There is a printer inside a box in my living room that I need to print a work related document. It's now there for like 8 days? My office wrote me, that they need that document and boy don't I care about it, as it is merely a formality. So yes, total check.
Dishes
See, this is why I'm not completely convinced ADHD matches me. I never leave dishes behind. When I'm done cooking, even before I take the first bite, the kitchen is in perfect condition. Vacuuming my room on the other hand...
Todo lists
I need them to be productive, but my personal todo list tends to remain on my whiteboard for weeks or months until I do everything possible in one rush. I guess that is also a match?
Your last paragraph sounds like doing things compulsively, things that aren't important right now. That is also a no match for me. I get hyper focused from time to time, although that has gotten quit rare in recent years. But I've never not went to a meeting or something similar because of it. If I need to do something, if I start to feel negative about it, I'll get it done no matter what. I'd feel quite awkward not getting to meetings, so that doesn't happen. Maybe this is still a match?
Edit:
On the other hand, I should complete a Jira story right now. But now I'm here and listening to a ADD related talk from another comment. But I really should work on that story to finish it. But I kind of have an open deadline. But it gets steadily more embarrassing that I haven't finished it. Uh oh.
Went through the list. I'd say at least 50% matches me completely, but some items are situational or are not even close.
- Keeping still? As a kid, I had always a problem keeping my leg still.
- Excessive talking? Nope, I was the quite kid. Also never interrupted anyone and still don't.
- Acting without thinking? The polar opposite. I didn't act because of all the thinking. That problem remains to this very day.
- Not caring about details? Painfully correct, why did I end up as SWE where details are all that matters?
- Appearing forgetful? 100%. I can't remember most of my childhood and have a bad memory in general. But I never misplace things. Can't remember work stuff if I don't write it down. Onenote saves me daily.
- Listening to instructions? Well, I'm very good at listening to people in bilateral situations. But during meetings? My mind goes places. And reading docs and instructions is almost impossible. Even if I can force myself to go through everything, I still miss details!
- Difficulty organizing? Absolutely, although I get it done if I'm forced to do it. But I hate it.
- Short attention span? Well, depends on the situation. In gaming, I can stay focused all day long. I can read a book for hours. No problem staying focused doing physical activities (sport). Staying focused on coding is really difficult and I constantly zone out.
- Taking risks? Ha, no. I don't take risks, at all. It's actually a problem.
- Impatience? Yes and no, depending on the situation. But I'm mostly quite patient. Maybe because I'm in my head most of the time?
- Mood swings? Not at all. At least not within one day. But during the week? There a bad days and good days.
- Not completing tasks? Not really, I tend to finish what I've started, if it is manageable, can be done in one go. But complex tasks, that may not be well defined? Personal hell.
- Inability to deal with stress? I'm a Jedi. I don't get stressed easily and if the situation becomes stressful, I get more focused. But I need a lot of downtime to keep my sanity.
That I went through these lists in a not so orderly fashion is also not the best sign, isn't it?
Not everyone has all the symptoms. For example, I don't really display hyperactivity nor mood swings, nor do I have trouble dealing with most kinds of stress.
> - Short attention span? Well, depends on the situation. In gaming, I can stay focused all day long. I can read a book for hours. No problem staying focused doing physical activities (sport). Staying focused on coding is really difficult and I constantly zone out.
> Hyperfocus is the experience of deep and intense concentration in some people with ADHD. ADHD is not necessarily a deficit of attention, but rather a problem with regulating one’s attention span to desired tasks. So, while mundane tasks may be difficult to focus on, others may be completely absorbing. An individual with ADHD who may not be able to complete homework assignments or work projects may instead be able to focus for hours on video games, sports, or reading.
The good side about the common ADHD medications (various stimulants) is that they mostly help within half an hour, if they help at all.
So apart from the hassle of getting a diagnosis and prescription, at least you won't have to endure months of side effects before you know whether you can get any better.
(I'm contrasting that with eg anti-depressants here.)
That sounds promising. On a side note, today I've tried Nicotin for the first time. I've heard that it helps people with ADHD and as this has been on my mind for a couple of months by now, I figured that this might be an easy way to check myself. Your post was the last push and I have a shop right next to my door.
Well, it seemed to work. Maybe placebo, but I'd say that I had high concentration burst in 30-45 minutes intervals (after inhaling). I kind of forgot that I've taken it a couple of minutes in, because I was so focused on the code. I heard that Nicotin works as neuroenhancer in general, so nothing is proven. But no matter why, it seemed to help.
I really don't want to get addicted to Nicotin, so I'll see how I can find a doctor to verify/falsify this.
ADHD is best described as impaired self-directed behavior.
The kernel of motivation may exist, but an ADHD victim would fail to follow through on that motivation, to their own detriment.
Either due to lack of concentration, lack of planning, or lack of execution. Often all of the above.
It is a general dysexecutive syndrome that that may impact all higher order cognitive functions.
Motivation, on the other hand can also be impaired by depression (aka "learned helplessness" - which is not uncommon in ADHD), but that would not be ADHD in itself.
