The headline here is quite misleading. This seat is intended to compete with premium economy seats, not with economy.
These seats produce the same cabin density at today's premium economy, while trying to offer a business-class-lite experience.
Airlines might buy these, because if they can differentiate premium economy a bit more from regular economy, they might be able to sell more of it.
Most airlines are installing only 25-30 seats in their premium economy classes, even on big birds like 777-300. If this makes the class more appealing, they may be able to install 40 seats or more instead.
The fact that they are stacked, and that they don't lie flat, will keep them sufficiently distinct from true business class not to cannibalize business class sales.
But, these seats won't leave room for overhead lockers. The seats have an amount of small-item storage that will feel extremely generous in Premium Economy, but without the lockers, there's no storage for bigger bags.
This is also not an unsolvable problem, but airlines are exceptionally risk-averse and change-averse, so it'll take some real convincing.
And then there's the accessibility and safety issues with the ladders to resolve and the question of how people will feel about the low ceiling clearance (will it feel premium? especially to people who aren't regular travelers)
I do hope some airline tries it. There is a ton of room to make air travel different, but airlines are all very fearful, staid entities. For the most part, airlines consider themselves bold if they buy the same Recaro seat as every other airline, but in unique color or fabric combination.
The issue is that airlines would simply modify this design to increase passenger density instead of offering the same density but with more space. The solution to ever-shrinking space in the airplane, however, is economic, not technical. Imagine if you could select a 1X-3X room in increments of 0.5X with proportional pricing when you buy a ticket. Airline does not lose money and customers get what they can afford. Right now we only have 1X, 1.15X and 3X options which unfortunately neither sufficient to fit the curve or even have same distribution or pricing.
This is for a premium economy class. The existence of premium economy is already us reaching the point where people are prepared to pay more for more.
Airlines believe that they can make more money selling fewer seats at higher prices -- at a price point typically 50-100% above economy, for about 50-70% more space.
The thing is, most flights only have 3 rows of premium economy (except some ultra-long-haul Singapore Air flights) -- right now, most people still want to buy whatever is cheapest -- partially because international travel is actually out of their budget, and so taking that basic-economy cheap fare is part of finding a way to go at all, and partially for a reason that I don't think airlines appreciate (they've made people expect service and comfort to be absolutely horrid, and so many customers wouldn't pay more for better because they don't trust the airline to be capable of providing better, and assume the higher prices are just a rip-off and not actually a better product.)
Well, and it's basically impossible to comparison shop flights with seat space or comfort as a filtering element. Right now the only really usable criteria are price and number of free bags.
Google Flights gives indications on each leg whether it is roomy, average, or tight. For premium classes, it reports recliner, angle-flat, or lie-flat.
You still can't search by it, though.
This isn't much, but it is integrated into a flight search engine.
Of course, if you really want to know, there are sites like seatguru with all the details (but average travelers are never going to look for that)
Regarding overhead bin space, I think carriers and their onboard staff can adapt by using some of the overhead space in the front rows of economy class as needed, by handling PE passengers’ luggage for them, if this means added margins. The staff already partakes in similar activities when overhead space is limited and/or the passenger needs physical assistance.
Given trends in economy class and how carry-on suitcase traffic jams are at times causing flight delays, I can see a future where carryon suitcases are no longer permitted for economy class passengers. We’re already on this slippery slope.
Yes, that is one possible solution. One of the overhead lockers makers is already demoing a locker with weight sensors and colored lights intended to be part of a reservation system, where premium passengers or those paying a fee would get reserved space in specific locker locations.
Of course, enforcement is hard. Airlines moving toward "basic economy" without access to lockers is becoming a thing -- and this can be enforced by making them board last and in a separate group, so the agents can check for big/multiple bags, and if a "basic" passenger does manage to cheat and find space, since they're last, they're not taking the space from a "paying customer"
Airlines are moving toward an increasingly price-continuity model, where you can buy a ticket at whatever price feels acceptable to you, and there will always be another enhancement of upgrade available at a modest cost, pushing you to spend more to feel less discomfort.
One thing they will have to consider for turnaround times is how much slower is cleaning with this design? Maybe it ends up more ergonomic to reach some of the trash on the ground up there, but I would think something like vacuuming would be slower.
Business and First classes already have this problem in spades, of course -- but they're expensive services and lower person density (leading to less average uncleanliness).
Maybe forego carpets and build in an automated hose-down system? (probably not)
A 777 has a lot of space up top that isn’t being used for anything beyond crew breaks; overhead is also rarely a problem on long long hauls (the planes are bigger, have plenty of overhead space per seating, and people don’t carry as much on when they have to go through immigration and customs anyways). I don’t think space is really as much as a problem as weight, which shouldn’t be an issue here.
I don't think weight will be a major problem here, given the stated focus on it.
I couldn't find weight specs for units of Zodiac Z535s or Recaro PL3530 seats, which are two of the major competitors in the premium economy market to compare with the "under 50kg per unit" claim on the Zephyrs. If you have the numbers, I'd be interested
I wonder how you get drinks and food to the top row, too. Doable, but not easy, and if you hit a turbulence at right moment you could have Bloody Bloody Mary all over the attendant and someone sitting on the lower row...
> Airlines might buy these, because if they can differentiate premium economy a bit more from regular economy, they might be able to sell more of it.
I’m not sure the economics are that simple. I won’t fly economy long haul, and generally fly business. When I’m feeling broke or when I think it won’t be thaaat bad I’ll go for Premium Economy. This seat would allow me to fly PE more, and cost the airline a Business seat.
> These seats produce the same cabin density at today's premium economy, while trying to offer a business-class-lite experience.
This would be vastly superior to business class and even to most airlines' versions of first class. Not sitting next to someone (and barely even having to see them) is worth a fortune to me.
Modern business class gives you that, plus true lie-flat seating without anybody over your head. Most airlines are installing either reverse herringbone seats or suite-style lie-flats -- but either way, increasingly with aisle access for all passengers.
Some airlines are still doing 2-2-2 layouts, but that is rapidly disappearing on long-haul service.
The lack of airlines' willingness to experiment is bizarre to me, considering they have large fleets of planes and could easily A/B test new technologies with minimal investment and disruption of their regular business.
It's not particularly tempting to A/B test seats which will cost you $500k per aircraft to install. Plus you can't conduct real world tests on equipment which doesn't have the relevant certifications.
People also don't like to be surprised by their brand, at least in non-trivial ways. I'd predict constant A/B testing of disruptive ideas (such as new seating arrangements or radically boarding schemes) would end up damaging the brand and customer retention.
They could do focus groups though. Build a few different seating arrangements, pay people to sit in them for a couple hours, and collect their thoughts afterwards.
They used to spend more than that on cherry tomatoes every year. I think a few hundred thousand for trying out different seats would be a drop in the bucket.
These seats produce the same cabin density at today's premium economy, while trying to offer a business-class-lite experience.
Airlines might buy these, because if they can differentiate premium economy a bit more from regular economy, they might be able to sell more of it.
Most airlines are installing only 25-30 seats in their premium economy classes, even on big birds like 777-300. If this makes the class more appealing, they may be able to install 40 seats or more instead.
The fact that they are stacked, and that they don't lie flat, will keep them sufficiently distinct from true business class not to cannibalize business class sales.
But, these seats won't leave room for overhead lockers. The seats have an amount of small-item storage that will feel extremely generous in Premium Economy, but without the lockers, there's no storage for bigger bags.
This is also not an unsolvable problem, but airlines are exceptionally risk-averse and change-averse, so it'll take some real convincing.
And then there's the accessibility and safety issues with the ladders to resolve and the question of how people will feel about the low ceiling clearance (will it feel premium? especially to people who aren't regular travelers)
I do hope some airline tries it. There is a ton of room to make air travel different, but airlines are all very fearful, staid entities. For the most part, airlines consider themselves bold if they buy the same Recaro seat as every other airline, but in unique color or fabric combination.