Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit login

Brazil isn't part of the Visa Waiver program and felt that its citizens were being treated unreasonably. Thus, they began being rude to Americans. (IIRC)

Kind of an asshole move, but highly entertaining to watch from the outside.




Brazil has a well-known tit-for-tat policy in foreign matters. They will apply to a country's citizens whatever policy that country applies to Brazilians. So Americans were singled out because they singled out Brazilians. It's called having balls.


Except they weren't singled out. Visa waiver program requires each member be at certain economic and political levels. Countries like Singapore met the requirement and are included, countries like Brazil, China, and India don't. This isn't elementary school anymore, you expect diplomats to act diplomats and get policies enacted, not come up with some stupid scheme even a 10 year old could see through.

What the politicians should be doing is saying, "we want to be part of Vfw too, what can we do to get there?" and not, "the US gov't don't like us, so we won't like them!" Instead of trying to work closer together, this policy only makes the divide bigger. I was ready to go to Brazil for a vacation, but chose South Africa instead because of this silliness.

To an American, not going to Brazil has very little impact on them. They'll take their money and go elsewhere.


Americans weren't singled out either. Brazil's policy is the same for all countries: the same hurdles Brazilians have to go through in a given country, citizens of that country will have to go through in Brazil.

EDIT: Would Florida prefer that half a million Brazilians hadn't visited in 2010? It works both ways, you see.


Except, Brazil treats them as one issue when most other countries treat them as 2. Instead of going, "what can we do to encourage more Americans to come here?", and "how can we lower the US VISA requirements for our people". The former is an active discouragement, most Americans don't leave the US so putting $160 visa fee is a huge roadblock. The latter, is just misguided, it affects americans, but the people they should be addressing are the lawmakers and the state department, the people that actually write the VISA rules.


On one short trip to Brazil, entering at GIG, I was singled out, had my passport held and told I couldn't enter and would have to return to the US. The Federal Police told me specifically and precisely it was for reciprocity - some Brazilians had been turned away in the US and so they were doing the same for me. They had no legal reason to deny me entry, it was simply because I am American.


It's not having balls. It's having a temper tantrum.

Many, many countries have repricosity-based policies for these things, but the "repeicosity" is applied in a very one-sided way by all of them. Policy that pisses them off will be emulated and applied to foreigners unlucky enough to be from whatever country offends them, but unusually lax or inexpensive policies won't usually be up for reciprocal treatment. Consider visa fees. All kinds of places will charge US and UK citizens extra, but few will give discounts to those from countries with extremely inexpensive entry.

I consider this sort of policy to be little more than an immature way to vent at more powerful countries. Sure it sucks that it's hard to get a tourist visa if you're Brazilian and going to the US (or Chinese going to Japan, or Russian going to Finland, etc..), but that's due to very high rates of people applying for such visas fleeing and working illegally. The risk of someone from a richer country doing so in a poorer country is far, far lower. Any sort of "repricosity"-based response to this reality accomplishes little more than hassling ordinary people who aren't at all to blame for the forces shaping the situation.


reciprocity


  It's called having balls.
Having balls for brains, maybe. Instead of working on making the US border experience more efficient and human-oriented, they just make it harder for a selected group of people. An easy way out, I say.


You have no idea if they tried exactly what you are suggesting. And given that diplomats do exactly that, I'm pretty sure they did, and it didn't work.




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: