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> if you want to perform a task that requires features from two or more applications, you may well be out of luck!

Ok... but if you don’t need that you’re not doing ‘real work’?



If iPads didn’t have a productivity problem then Apple wouldn’t have to dance around that narrative and our conversations would shift more to Apples direction — that the iPad can be your first and primary device. That would be another revolution in personal computing. That iPads are so well priced and that this hasn't happened says something.

Apple has pushed the narrative of "What's a Computer", so they're just reaping what they sow.


that the iPad can be your first and primary device

For tens of millions of people it can be.

Evidence: Hundreds of million of iPhone users who do not have computers. It's why Apple started iCloud backup and restore for the iPhones — So people without computers can upgrade without losing all of their data and settings.


I'm not implying that work done in integrated suites or "apps" is illegitimate. I'm just trying to close the philosophical gap by explaining that this sort of work is a subset of all the work one might want to do with a computer.


What if your work requires detailed onscreen notation and drawing or requires mobility and a rear camera? These aren’t work subsets of a computer without bulky and expensive peripherals.


I have an older Surface with front and rear cameras and a pen. I can draw, annotate documents, and take photos just fine while using Windows 10. I can also use the whole universe of software available for Windows. Occasionally I might have to plug in a mouse or attach the keyboard/touchpad cover to use older software that isn't multitouch-friendly.

If Apple sold a device which was physically identical to an iPad but ran OSX (with some minor affordances to close the gaps between touch, pen, and mouse input- much as Microsoft has pursued in recent Windows iterations) I'd be ecstatic with it. I've considered trying a Modbook, but the price is a bit eye-watering.

Having access to a desktop-style OS would only add to the range of things you could do with smaller devices. Would it be harder to use than an iPad? Maybe.


You can put Linux on most Surfaces, and many of the cheaper Windows tablets. With pmOS, you may soon be able to put a desktop Linux OS on many cheap Android devices. The UX work for these use cases has been done - GNOME is now very much a mobile-ready and touch-ready environment, supporting real professional work. Plasma Mobile is not too far behind.


>What if your work requires detailed onscreen notation and drawing or requires mobility and a rear camera?

Then your work is not a typical example of real work, the same thing being a rock star is not -- even if people exist that are rock stars and get paid for it, so it's still "real work" in that sense.


Still with the gate keeping.

"Real work" is only real if it agrees with your narrow world view.


You got it backwards.

It's you who want to enforce much narrower areas of work as characteristic of real work.

"Real work" in the casual sense (what most people consider work, or work most people's work is like) is what agrees with the statistically wider kinds of work people do.

This also has nothing to do with gatekeeping. People still get to be stunt drivers and rock stars and vloggers paid to eat their lunch live on YouTube, whether we consider what they do representative of "real work" or not.


Being a rock star is real work, btw. So is stunt driving and vlogging.


It's real work in the sense of it involves real effort (work here used as in the phrase "hard work").

But "Real work" for the purposes of this thread is work that is representative of what most people do / realistic for people to have -- and statistically speaking, being a rock star is neither common, not representative of the kind of job most people do.

To recap the argument made:

A: People can't do real work on the iPad because it lacks X. B: Really? And what about the people that are Y, they don't need X feature. A: Well, Y is not real work.

What the person A says is not that (a) Y doesn't exist, (b) nobody has Y as their role, (c) nobody makes money by doing Y (and it is thus, their work).

The charitable interpretation, which is obvious since we're talking about e.g. "fighting aliens" (which indeed, is not a "real work" in any sense of the term), is that A means Y is not really representative of the work most people do, and that the percentage of people doing Y is small to not count for the purposes of how useful an iPad is for real work.


I think you’re totally confusing yourself


Well, you might still do real work (if you get paid for doing whatever you do) but you're in a much much smaller niche of real work.

It makes sense then to define "real work" by what the majority of "real work" is, not the exceptions, even if the exceptions are still real work.

Like the phrase "Nobody uses X" means "very few use X, so few that it doesn't matter", "Y is not good for real work" means "Y is not good for 90% of real work" (the most common types) not "Y is not good for any kind of real word at all ever period".


Real work is only real if you get paid for it ?

You do realise this is HN where quite a lot of us are building startups and not getting paid for it.


Well, you do realise that if you don't get paid for it it's not really your work. It's just an effort you might or might not turn into a work.


I think I see more normal working people using iPads to do their 'real work' day-to-day than I see using laptops to do their 'real work'. I think it may not be as much of a niche as you think it is.


Do you have numbers to backup this statement? I would expect the group of people not requiring composability to be larger than the composability group.


I guess us developers who are staying within a single IDE are not doing "real work".

Also what about people doing CAD, Data Science etc. they also almost always stay within one app.


> I guess us developers who are staying within a single IDE

Are you? Apart from IDE, I also run a version control system, a build system, a CI/CD system, a language runtime..

These are all from different vendors.


"UNIX is my IDE."


This, but unironically.


It is kind of a shame that in the day and age of containers we can't just have Linux as an "app" on our iPads. Instead people are forced to write a worse version of everything and bundle it together as an app.

I kind of appreciate Apple's approach to simplicity. I use an iPad because I don't want to maintain another computer; syncing configuration, updating packages, etc. But it basically means that I use it as a "dumb terminal" when I hear it has a surprisingly fast processor. Seems like a waste.


You can, iSh is a container of Alpine Linux.

I admittedly don't do much of anything with it, but it's neat to have.


Neat, I didn't know about that.

I wonder why they emulate x86 instead of targeting ARM though.


It doesn't make much difference, since either way they can't run native code - iOS makes this virtually impossible.

More in depth discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18425106


I can commit code, build projects and deploy work all through my IDE.

It's actually why they call it IDE because it's an integrated development environment.


It is called an Integrated Development Environment for a reason.


Most source code is portable to a different IDE if you wanted.

I work on open standards for CAD to allow portability of that and am starting to apply this to data science too.


it takes a tremendous amount of configuration to stay in your ide 100% of the time. I refuse to believe you never have to copy paste from another app into the IDE.


It takes about 5 minutes to configure an IDE.

Add Git credentials, importing a project takes care of the setup and build and you can create new Run tasks in most IDEs for calling a different part of your build file e.g. deploy or test.

And I occasionally copy/paste from a browser. But you can do that just fine on an iPad or iPhone.


For small solo dev projects sure. I've never seen a large software company that had everything running inside an IDE though.


Yeah, opening the settings panel is such an effort. /s




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