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It is not fair to call someone "empty" because their motivation stems from something you don't share. It does not make their work and contribution any less difficult or necessary.



Though harsh and (of course) generalized, I think the word "empty" is a useful description here. Think of these meanings of empty:

  - "containing nothing; not filled or occupied"
  - "lacking meaning or sincerity"
  - "having no value or purpose"
In the context of academia, there is an expectation of a certain fundamental motivation; namely, to pursue knowledge in a particular field and share it back via writing and/or teaching.

If one lacks that primary motivation, they certainly "lack" it and are "not filled" with the academic ethos. So "empty" is a fair term.

Now, I understand the realities as well -- seeking publications, recognition, tenure, and funding are also political activities. But this does not contradict the underlying community norm that I mention above. In fact, it supports it -- it explains why so many people endure a tough, grueling, political process despite it not being their wheelhouse.


>If one lacks that primary motivation, they certainly "lack" it and are "not filled" with the academic ethos. So "empty" is a fair term.

No idea why you think this. A phd has a contrat with a salary, starting and end dates.


Re: "No idea why you think this."

My comment above makes an argument. You don't have to agree with it, but it should give you some idea about how I came to my conclusion.


Indeed, I should have expanded a bit, it was a bit disingenuous from me. But I don't think that academia's ethos is the primary motivation. It wasn't for me. The primary motivation for my phd was to get the doctor title and money afterward. It was a transaction between academia and me where they get a qualified engineer for a low price, and I get educated about research. No one ever talked to me about academia ethos. The closest thing about educating and sharing others my supervisor told me was "We might have a job opening for teaching and research after your phd if you are interested to further expand in Academia, but don't count on it. Such openings are rare".

So basically your conclusion doesn't go well with my experience. I only saw a contract with low salary and a lot of work on my end. It was worth it for me (I think?), so I accepted.


Thanks for telling us your story -- you make good points.

To what degree did you enjoy the process of learning, collaborating, teaching, writing, experimenting, and so on? I'd wager you did enjoy some or many of these... otherwise, it might have been a long slog. :/

Maybe the following story can convey part of my message. You might have seen movies about a wily protagonist villain (or a flawed, tenuous partnership between several) who meticulously plan to steal some priceless artifact from some nearly-impregnable facility. What drives such people? I don't think it is purely money -- there would be alternatives that would, rationally speaking, generate more income, on a risk-adjusted basis. In the case of the ninja-suit wearing infiltrator(s), I'd argue they fundamentally enjoy the process (the preparation, the planning, the deferred gratification, the meaning). Perhaps the same is true for people that pursue and complete a Ph.D. -- some get a decent financial payout, but on average, I don't think the degree made them better off financially compared to other alternatives (e.g. holding together some rotting infrastructure with bailing wire). They value the title, the activities, the identity, the community, the kind of work they do.

Seeking a job only for money doesn't really endow much meaning -- (Please, don't take this as an endorsement to go off and work for some harebrained startup when you have better options. :P) -- though I think there is plenty of meaning even in the mundane (e.g. rearranging JSON) to be found if you open yourself to experience (e.g. books with dragons about parsers).


nefitty: You make some good points.

I would like to share my views around fairness and judgement. My apologies if the numbering makes them seem formal; my intention is only to give them a rough ordering.

1. One should not be eager to criticize others.

2. One should seek to understand others.

3. However, one should be willing, intellectually, to differentiate between aspects and assess those differences.

4. It requires some care to balance 1, 2, and 3.

5. One should be honest with oneself, at least, about your conclusions.

6. One should be comfortable with your assessments, particularly if you've thought them through.

7. One should be willing to share these thoughts with others, because debate will improve your thinking, scope, and articulation.

8. One should accept the consequences of what you say.

9. One should learn from what you say.

10. One should not refrain from making assessments only out of a fear that someone will label you as "judgmental".

11. Some people criticize others because they dislike the other person judging others. This is somewhat ironic, because in some cases this criticism is premature. If one judges another without engaging to develop an understanding, I think that is unfortunate. Doing so would be acting in a way inconsistent with one's own values.

All of these "should" statements should be adjusted to the situation. For example, repeated experience, if reflected on fairly, may warrant that some particular people do not deserve the same degree, say, of "benefit of the doubt".




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