Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

[flagged]


I do think you don’t need citations to know that over-surveillance is a consistent happening, my apologies if you aren’t American.

New York recently finished settling and paying out a case where they were accused of heavily, unreasonably surveilling a number of muslim people and properties. In the end, they still admitted to no misconduct.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/05/nyregion/last-suit-accusi...

This is just a single drop in heavy policing that NYC pushed for and is still dealing with the effects of doing so. Stop and Frisk comes to mind: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=846365


[flagged]


That's because you're looking at US law enforcement as a unified system. It is not and never has been a unified system. I don't think the FBI is still running surveillance on all civil rights leaders so they can blackmail them, but that happened - I don't really doubt that the police department in Baltimore is planting drugs on people though, as was shown on their own video cameras in the last year.


> without heavy policing a large city with very high income inequality like NYC would quickly turn into a dystopian shithole

A lack of order is not what I'm 'proposing', but more the factor that 'order' is very obviously skewed towards minorities as shown by various sources you could seek now. One could also discuss how it's based on crime statistics, but that would reach to "systematic oppression" fields: You can't continuously punish random people of a certain race just because statistics say they're 'likely' to commit crime, this is systematic. What you see as a dystopian shithole is already just that for those who can't have their peace without law involvement, and ML tools will not skirt around this, the bias will only transfer and amplify such shit.

> I also believe countermeasures are necessary to prevent Islamic radicalization (and any other kind of radicalization as well).

The department responsible for the spying disbanded and confirmed in 2014 that they hadn't generated a terrorism related case since 2008, as stated in the previous NYT article. You'd frankly figure that after 9/11, American Muslims — Let alone those in New York, would be actively against any kind of 'radicalization' unless you consider simply practicing religion as 'radicalization', which NYPD practically did here.

> Don't try nothing - won't be nothing

I mentally envy the ability to state such a thing, to be honest.


> What you're missing though is that without heavy policing a large city with very high income inequality like NYC would quickly turn into a dystopian shithole.

Citation needed.


How about a citation (with actual data) about the NYPD's work slowdown[1] in 2014-2015. Contrary to fears about NYC into a dystopia and the traditional authoritarian claims about "broken window" policing, lower police activity resulted in lower crime rates.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2016/07/2...


> What you're missing though is that without heavy policing a large city with very high income inequality like NYC would quickly turn into a dystopian shithole.

Sounds like an argument for addressing income inequality.


Yeah, that was my initial reaction.



[flagged]


Sub in "law enforcement" for "police" if you want to be that pedantic, and I did say "historically".

If you want more recent examples, Chicago was disappearing people to black sites for interrogation this decade.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/feb/24/chicago-poli...

and torturing suspects for decades, well into the 2000s:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/feb/18/guantanamo-t...


>Citation needed

See: South Africa




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: