I’ve been thinking we were getting close to peak craft beer for a while now. I’m thinking that a lot of independent craft brewers agree as there has been a lot of these breweries selling to the super majors in the past few years. As others have mentioned there is simply too much to choose from that really isn’t all that different. This is my own opinion, but the recent trend of sour beers hasn’t helped matters either. Sour beer is just gross.

In the Houston area, there has been a few casualties in the craft beer market as well. Karbach sold to InBev in 2016 which was a huge disappointment to pretty much everyone in the area. Since the sale they have trimmed the selection and eliminated the seasonal beers I really liked.

Another brewery near me, Texian, gave up their brewery and now contract out through another brewer. However I’ve not seen any of their beer on the shelves lately so they may have suspended operations completely.

There are 2 independent breweries here that I think are doing things the right way- saint arnold and 8th wonder. Both are in my fridge most of the time.

Apparently microbrews are out of fashion now and "nanobrews" are the new thing where only a couple cases or kegs are made in any one batch. I also know a lot more people being their own beer.

I knew Lagunitas got too big though when I saw them in supermarkets in Boston and Europe. At that point you're just a brewery.

> At that point you're just a brewery.

I fail to discern the difference. If the beer quality remains higher than the draft swill the major brewers have offered years, what does it matter that they've developed new markets?

Part of it's just hipster fashion, of course.

Putting that aside, though, there may be reasons why it matters. Scaling up production while maintaining quality and consistency is actually very difficult. You simply can't stock supermarkets across the country using small-batch brewing methods, so it's inherently a sign that they've moved away from what made them good. Even if they're still much better than the "swill", they're probably no longer the best thing you could be drinking and it's time to search for a new favorite.

The existing craft beer community seems to have a big element of fashion to it.

I have a social circle of friends who are very into craft beer. I have seen them throw out beer they had already purchased just because a brewery had sold to a big brewer like InBev.

At first I thought it was an ethical boycott like boycotting Nestle. After talking to them I found out it was solely because they were cool anymore and they didn't want to be seen associated with the brand.

The exact quote I heard was "I don't want to be caught drinking anything someone in college knows about"

It's Lagunitas. It's not fancy beer.

A bit of an opinion there. I find IPA's completely unpalatable but could probably drink a sour beer every day

I'm with ya on IPAs, hard to beat a good Belgian sour (or any Belgian beer for that matter).

As I prefaced, it was my opinion. I’m not a huge IPA fan either.

I did miss that, my bad.

I do think that means theres still a lot of growth in the market. The IPA market seems fairly tapped out, along with porters, stouts, and lagers. There's still other people that aren't really into craft beer because their tastes haven't been served, like myself with craft beer.

It's not like the current craft beer market is serving the population of the earth - the percentage that are teetotalers

"is just gross" sounds like a statement. "I really don't like" "I cannot drink", " it makes me gag" sounds like an opinion or preference.

With Lagunitas is one of the worst offenders.

I enjoy beer, but have to admit I’m burning out on the hopped up IPAs. Lagunitas produces a bunch of different beers, but they are all just variations of the same theme (ok I like their Pils)

As someone who doesn't enjoy very bitter beer, I do find the obsession of super duper hopped up IPAs in the US market really suffocating.

As a lot of posters noted, Sours and other beers are becoming more mainstream but I do think the "microbrewery" boom is finally coming to an end. Most of the famous ones are already owned by Heineken or A-B. Consolidation seems to be the natural state of the market it seems. I would like to see some in depth studies to see how this has changed the flavors, if at all. I'm always skeptical when people claim that the quality of these brewers lowered when purchased; however changes in the supply chain could result in that.

I backed away from craft beers once it seemed to me that the craft beer market had become about making as unlikeable a beer as possible so that people would then claim that they were true beer lovers since they enjoyed that pretty unlikeable beer (unlikeable here largely refers to hoppiness but there are other forms as well such as extremely high alcohol levels or excessively flavored beers).

So it's all about your own tastes? It's all a conspiracy or something? I like a variety of beers, sometimes a lighter pilsner, but I do at times crave a hoppy citrus ipa. It's possible people can have different tastes than yours without it being a lie.

Hi, I absolutely love extremely hoppy beers, and not for any hipster fashion reasons. I just like the taste, so the explosion in IPAs has been awesome for me.

I also love strongly peated smokey whisky and outrageously strong cheese :-)

I'm not a huge beer drinker (every week or two I might have a couple beers), and usually I'll stick mostly to what I like. Lil Sumpin is my all time favorite beer, but I'm not necessarily a huge fan of their regular IPA.

Brown Shugga seems like a fairly unique beer, but I don't have a lot of experience to compare it to. It's interesting on their tour to hear about how it was an accident. Not really to my taste though.

I live in the area, so it's widely available here (possibly along with variations in the supermarkets that aren't as widely available farther away?), and they all seemed fairly different, but I'm not sure I'm experienced enough to judge.

Aunt Sally - Did not like. Don't think I like sours though.

Supercluster - Had it the other week at a family gathering. Was pretty good.

The Pils you mention, I don't recall the name, I seem to recall liking it.

There was one super hoppy one with raw hops my brother had me try. I was not a fan, reminded my of drinking mowed grass. He seemed to like it.

The Red (called "Red"?) - Had once, really liked it, but it's been a few years.

Brown Shugga - It's been years since I tried it, but I recall not liking it too much.

IPA - Okay in a pinch, but not a first choice. I'll probably order something else if it looks remotely interesting at this point.

Lil Sumpin / Lil Sumpin Extra - My current favorites for the last few years.

I'd love to know what people recommend for other things like the Red or Lil Sumpin.

Just? IPAs have taken over half the taps for years now. I've been burned out on them for a while. :-(

Fortunately, sours are finally starting to become more widely available. If you haven't had one yet, I'm a big fan of Rodenbach as a good sour to start with.

agreed that the Pils is very drinkable; a higher gravity version would be killer

I love Lagunitas. I just don't buy it anymore. There are breweries very local to me that produce a product--never bottled, never stored for very long, never shipped--that is so much better than anything I can buy in a store, I spend 100% of my beer money on those local breweries.

This is the way things should be, and the way things used to be. It's about time we return to sanity. I hope more and more things head toward the care of the past.

The craft beer market is simply oversupplied. In any of the larger liquor stores in the US, there is a bewildering choice of beers, most of which are simply undistinguishable.

It's getting hard to make decisions. Store near me has a really good selection with a huge portion of it from just Texas breweries.. Lagunitas wasn't really keeping up with the times IMHO; easy to say goodbye after the sale to Heineken. I think only the breweries really continuing to push the envelope and surprise will rise to the top.

Some examples which people may disagree with: Odells(rupture is very good IMHO), Founders, Stone, Boulevard, Deschutes(still putting out some good seasonal and one-off), Prairie, ... Actually I could probably go on and then get into singler beers that I like a lot from different breweries. Too much to choose from, and sometimes you don't want to pick out something new when you already have 30 beers available you know you're gonna like.

Wouldn't mind clearing some of the shelf space of generics and getting some New Zealand beers in though.. They are doing some fantastic stuff down there.

Indistinguishable*. But even then I don’t think that’s the right word. The way different products are qualitatively differentiated is not clear from the packaging, but you will generally expect two randomly chosen beers to taste different. I don’t see why that’s bad either. I enjoy the novelty and lack of expectation even if all beer is bounded within a certain range of taste.

Do you feel the same way about the wine market? Or do you feel like that market is different somehow?

If it's anything like the UK, the wine selection will have variation. The craft beers will be 300 hoppy IPAs.

It's awesome.

It broke my heart when Lagunitas sold to Heineken. Since then any purchase that would have been Lagunitas has gone to more Stone or Alpine.

The choice out there is amazing; easy to say goodbye to breweries like Lagunitas and Anchor for selling out to overseas companies.

Can you elaborate on why the sale broke your heart? Was it because the beer itself changed? Or you were concerned that future development of new, different, beer would cease or move in a direction you didn't like? Or was it a political/philosophical issue of not wanting to support foreign corporations?

Lagunitas has some historical significance in the American craft brewing scene. Particularly with the launch and rise of "IPA" to national significance. It might not be a stretch to attribute "IPA" with significantly impacting the tide that lifted all craft beers. So yes, seeing them sell to a huge overseas beverage company felt a bit like losing part of our craft brewing heritage to a foreign company.

I'm also probably not alone in enjoying the feeling of at least pretending I'm supporting independently owned and operated craft breweries with my purchases :) It's getting harder these days with all the consolidation occuring.

The macro Brewing company holders (AB-InBev, et al) have used a similar embrace, extend, extinguish method to Microsoft in the 90s. Eg - buy out South African hop market, then only allow those unique hops to be used by AB-InBev owned breweries. Unlike with operating systems, the independent options are actually better. I can't speak to lagunitas as it isn't available in my market, but Goose Island beer has declined significantly since being bought out (their barrel aged ones are probably still fine, but Goose IPA is now available in many more bars, and is a much less-good beer.

> Goose Island beer has declined significantly since being bought out

The brewmaster quit when they sold. He moved to a tiny city in western Michigan (Fennville) and started a hard cider company. It's really interesting stuff - kind of like exploring what wine would be like if made with apples. No idea how widely it's distributed (if at all), but worth trying - Virtue Cider.

Interesting - I've added it to my list, in case I make it out that way. Thanks!

Cider has definitely been increasing the last few years, but even the funkiest wild-fermented ciders don't come close to what you can find in beer. In my experience!

> Unlike with operating systems, the independent options are actually better.

Wait, I know it was a throwaway comment, but are you saying Windows 10 (or some previous version) is actually better than any other OS?

Also, fwiw, I have tried a lot of craft beers but now find that Coors (the original American "microbrew," since it was only available in a relatively small area when I was young) satisfies my beer thirst. Though I'll admit that I'll happily drink Budweiser, Miller, Shiner (another original "microbrew"), or a number of other ordinary beers. Time-tested and true, all of them, with the bonus that their CEOs don't turn into politicians.

I guess we're probably completely opposite in tastes.

Edit: Have you ever had a Rolling Rock? It's a good beer.

> > Unlike with operating systems, the independent options are actually better.

> Wait, I know it was a throwaway comment, but are you saying Windows 10 (or some previous version) is actually better than any other OS?

Ha, yeah it was definitely a bit of a throwaway comment. I meant the opposite of that. I think a more accurate way for me to have said it would've been: "With craft beer, and unlike with OS, the independent options are indisputably better".

I'm not referring to the standard Macro brew styles - Bud, Coors, and even Rolling Rock are all indisputably good at what they do (American Lager, generally. https://www.bjcp.org/2008styles/style01.php ). But they aren't trying to be flavourful, adventurous, craft breweries. The independent craft breweries are the ones that have tried new things to see what stuck. They brought us the waves of IPA, and more recently kettle sour and gose. And the craft breweries that have been bought out (eg Goose Island) have generally not been as adventurous or responsive with new styles, and have not even maintained the quality with their existing recipes.

Unlike most of the user base on this site, craft beer is definitely my strong suit, and computer stuff secondary. That said, I think with operating systems, there is a lot of room for dispute (eg, Windows is definitely the best operating system for running AutoCAD or most games, but that doesn't make it the best for every use case). I guess the same could be said for beer. If you're looking for a nice lager, you're probably going to be better off with something reliable from the big breweries, than the ester-y "lager" some brand-new independent brewery is trying to sell you on. Sum it up: yep, a throwaway comment :)

Alpine is owned by some random holding company in Michigan now after Green Flash over extended themselves and collapsed. Alpine used to make incredible beer that Green Flash was never able to replicate. Thankfully you can still get it at their original pub in Alpine.

Yeah, that's a real shame; Duet is one of my favorite IPAs. The store up the road from me still gets Duet, Windows UP, and recently Nelson(the only Nelson hops beers I've seen in the USA). Not sure how they have changed(I read WC IPA changed after Silva left) but I'm keeping an eye on the whole situation haha.

Duet, Hoppy Birthday, Pure Hoppiness, and Nelson were four out of my five favorite beers. I'll keep it short and just say it was crushing watching GF fail over and over again with that merger.

You are also right about West Coast IPA changing after Silva left. They turned it into a DIPA and it wasn't nearly as good. Much sweeter and less balanced.

I have seen one of my favorite beers (Alpine) take a bit of a nose dive in quality around the time they sold to Green Flash. Pity. Their pre-GF beer was good.