"you are required to comply with the laws of any country you do business with."
Prove that.
Because that's not how "the law" works. I am Canadian, my business exists only in Canada, and there are only two types of laws that apply to me. Canadian laws, and treaties that Canada has signed on to comply with.
No other country in the world can just make some "arbitrary" law that affects me. Unless my country agrees. And to my knowledge, Canada has not signed a treaty with the EU regarding enforcement of the GDPR.
> I am Canadian, my business exists only in Canada, and there are only two types of laws that apply to me. Canadian laws, and treaties that Canada has signed on to comply with.
If you decide to sell a couch to someone in America, you have to comply with American tax laws, American import and customs laws, American consumer laws, American patent laws, American copyright laws, American trademark laws, and any other laws involved with doing a financial transaction with someone in America. The same logic applies for Australia, the United Kingdom, Germany, Belgium, South Korea, Japan, etc. Pretending otherwise is naive, and if you don't believe me then try to sell something patented in America to an American.
The key question is what happens if you break those laws. In most cases you will be given a fine, and if you don't pay then you will no longer be allowed to sell goods to consumers in that country. If you continue to break the law then you are probably breaking an international treaty on border control or customs, which means that you could be extradited or tried in your own country. Some of the laws I mentioned above are mediated through international agreements, but the fundamental point is that if you break their laws they can place sanctions against you to stop you from doing business with them.
Of course, for a couch business things would probably never reach that level. And for an internet business you probably would just be IP blocked or something similar.
> No other country in the world can just make some "arbitrary" law that affects me. Unless my country agrees.
But it only affects you if you make the positive decision to do business with a country that has those laws. If you don't decide to do that, then you don't have to follow those laws (obviously). You can't have it both ways though (the benefit of having access to a market without having to follow the laws of that market).
In the case of enforcement you're right that they wouldn't have the right to compel to you to pay a fine, but they can in theory place sanctions against you. So if you continue to do business with sanctions in place then there is a process for extradition through international treaties.
> The key question is what happens if you break those laws. In most cases you will be given a fine, and if you don't pay then you will no longer be allowed to sell goods to consumers in that country. If you continue to break the law then you are probably breaking an international treaty on border control or customs, which means that you could be extradited or tried in your own country. Some of the laws I mentioned above are mediated through international agreements, but the fundamental point is that if you break their laws they can place sanctions against you to stop you from doing business with them.
A foreign country could arbitrarily decide I owed them a certain fine, or was no longer allowed into their country, or that they didn't want to allow my products into their country, at any time, whether or not I followed their laws.
In my daily life I've done, and continue to do, things that are illegal under e.g. Iranian law. That's fine and normal - I have no obligation to comply with Iranian law. Iran can make its own decisions about whether e.g. I'm allowed to enter their country, but that would always be the case.
If you make a profit in America you'd better believe that the US government wants a share of it (there are exceptions if you sign a W8BEN and ask for a tax exemption based on existing international treaties) but the default position is that you pay tax on profits made in foreign countries -- and this applies for any country in the world that has something resembling a capital gains tax.
If you sell electronics that are a fire hazard, you can be punished for breaking consumer laws. I mean, for an extreme example, if you sell an illegal substance in America from overseas you can be punished for breaking those laws too.
I think you're seriously mistaken as to how one-off (and maybe all) import into the US works.
If I buy something mail-order from Canada, I'm considered the importer and would have to pay duty on it, just as if I had driven a truck over the border, bought the couch over there and driven it back.
If it's something as big as a couch, chances are it's going to be held at a customs warehouse for me to pick up (after I've paid the duty).
If I need to do this on a regular basis, I'm going to hire an import/export broker or possibly go through an actual furniture importer. That's the company that's doing business in the US that owes US incomes taxes, has to comply with US consumer protection laws and any of those other regulations.
In all of these scenarios, at no time did the Canadian couch store do any business in the US, even though I, the customer doing the "buying" may have been initiating the transaction over the Internet (or phone or with a paper mail-order form) physically in the US and/or with a US credit card.
If that Canadian couch is a fire hazard, the US's recourse is to stop it at the border and not let it in (or punish the US company, only in the case of the furniture reseller), and possibly punish me, the importer, since I'm the one legally attempting to bring it into the country. AFAIK, they have no recourse against the Canadian company.
you seem to suggest that you can (for example) sell/distribute canadian alcohol in saudi arabia, even though it's illegal there. do you really think that's accurate?
every country has the right to enforce it's own laws within it's own borders. you don't get a pass to do whatever you please in another country without their permission.
edit: i noticed "my business exists only in Canada"
if you mean to say you aren't doing business in another country than what you've written isn't speaking to the point of "you are required to comply with the laws of any country you do business with"
Yes. You can sell alcohol to Saudi Arabians from Canada. You cannot ship to Saudi Arabia. The buyer may pick up in another location where alcohol is legal including in person in Canada. What they do with the alcohol once in their possession is their business.
In which case you are doing business with (say) France, which has its own alcohol customs laws that you have to follow.
I never said that you have to follow the laws of the country of nationality of your clients. That'd be a ridiculous thing to say, and I'm not sure why you're arguing against that particular strawman (the GDPR only talks about EU residents and doesn't mention EU citizenship at all).
The word choice of citizen vs resident is a red herring. The issue is the extrajurisdictional reach of the law.
An EU resident visiting" your business which is hosted and operated in the United States, is the same as a Saudi Arabian coming to the United States to buy alcohol.
This is the reason why the GDPR requests an EU designated representative, so there is someone to charge locally.
> An EU resident "visiting" your business which is hosted and operated in the United States
Except the EU resident isn't "visiting" your business, you're providing a service to them across the US-EU border (and just like any cross-border service there are rules). I really don't get why this case is any more complicated than any other kind of consumer law (you can't sell electronics that blatantly catch fire to Australian customers, even if you're based in a country where consumer laws don't exist).
You aren’t providing the service across the border. The service is in your own country. The buyer is using telecommunications to make an order across the border.
The buyer is the one responsible for knowing their own local laws and should be responsible for managing them.
If a Saudi Arabian couple ordered a gay wedding cake from a baker in Montreal, over the phone from Saudi Arabia, in preparation for flying to Canada to get married, which laws apply? To whom?
Selling to Saudi Arabians and selling to Saudi Arabia are two entirely different things. In one you're doing conducting business in the Saudi Arabian market, and therefore under the umbrella of their government and in the other you're conducting business in whatever market the person you're selling your alcohol is located at, and under the umbrella of that market's laws.
When an EU business buys a service from an American operating in America from their website hosted in America how is this materially different than when a Saudi Arabian citizen visits New York and buys alcohol?
Because the EU business is not located in New York. It's located in the EU. By providing a service to an EU resident you are interacting across the US<->EU border and thus EU laws restrict what services you can provide across that border. I would recommend thinking about it like shipping products overseas.
Prove that.
Because that's not how "the law" works. I am Canadian, my business exists only in Canada, and there are only two types of laws that apply to me. Canadian laws, and treaties that Canada has signed on to comply with.
No other country in the world can just make some "arbitrary" law that affects me. Unless my country agrees. And to my knowledge, Canada has not signed a treaty with the EU regarding enforcement of the GDPR.