To anyone who isn't aware, there is a huge world of car hacking. There is of course the basics like getting an expensive air filter (pointless), and it goes all the way up to welding up your own custom car. The more common mods are things like tuning your suspension, replacing your engine with a more powerful one, or upgrading your differentials. It takes a wide range of skills, including welding, machining, panel beating, plumbing, and electrical. You can very easily nerd out on this.
It's also a good money suck. Pretty easy to spend a year's pay on car mods that at best do not regress safety features nor increase your rate of speeding tickets. At worst you're looking at safety issues and additional tickets (cost).
Not judging — people have different hobbies and are free to spend their money how they see fit. If you're looking for frugal hobbies, though, this isn't it.
(Now, shadetree home car maintenance — that's a frugal hobby in a similar vein. It's a nice break from the keyboard and requires some of the same skills.)
This is disappointing to read, but an understandable point of view from someone who isn’t into their cars.
The issue is there are two kinds of modders: those who mod for the track and those who mod for street racing. I’d bet that OP has experienced the latter and not the former, hence the negative comment.
There is a massive group of car modders who build their cars for the track. We understand that the road is not the right place to drive fast, and that there is almost no advantage in doing so. We seek faster lap times which often requires improving features of the car such as tires, brakes, suspension, stiffer anti-roll bars, gearboxes, clutch, seats, weight reduction, etc...
Also: off road/overlanders. Stock parts just don’t work.
Edit: I have replaced diffs, springs, shocks, tires, wheels, and added a steering damper. For overlanding that is pretty minimal work. For Motorsport style off-roading, I would need to do quite a bit more.
I was about to chime in with this, but you beat me to it. (HZJ79 Land Cruiser, lockers rear, center and front, full underbody and steering protection, expedition tank, water tanks, upgraded shocks, the mandatory snorkel, a real mother of a roof rack, steering damper coming up...
Sigh. Any hobby you can get blokes interested in eventually turns into gadget madness...
I knew someone would mention the Land Cruiser. It's the quintessential car for the HN crowd. It's upscale doesn't have the redneck vibe like an 80s Bronco or Suburban does.
> It's the quintessential car for the HN crowd. It's upscale doesn't have the redneck vibe like an 80s Bronco or Suburban does.
A Land Rover Defender would also fit this - if you see someone driving a defender it could be a destitute farmer, a middle class mother, a millionaire footballer, or literally the Queen. It’s the most egalitarian car in the world.
Upscale? Look at this baby and call it upscale once again... (Not mine, just first hit) [0]
Land Cruisers come in two main families - the rather utilitarian 70 series, favoured by the Red Cross, UN, IS and assorted civilians with a cavalier attitude towards fuel economy - and the increasingly luxurious (yet still eminently capable!) 120/150/200 series.
There's car mods other than race cars. I have a modified Toyota 4Runner that will go just about anywhere. There's a really large field of people restoring old cars, which is difficult because some parts just don't exist. This overlaps with the restomod scene, which restores old cars while selectively upgrading certain parts.
And then you get to stuff like putting a Tesla into an old Honda. If you have to ask why, then you wouldn't understand.
Did the GP mention it being a frugal hobby? Why bring up an issue, claim there are limited upsides and then point out that you aren't judging? It seems antithetical to the hacker spirit.
But you're right. I have a lot of money into my car. I also have 0 tickets. It also has a roll cage, FIA approved seat, harness bar, harness, hans device, etc
I've done Chumpcar before, as a car/team owner. It's a great experience but not as cheap as they make it out to be (ie "just put a roll cage in an old car and go race").
I'd love to do a lot more to my car, but I live in an apartment in a crowded part of the city; no garage, no place for tools.
Is there anything like the equivalent of a commissary kitchen, but for cars? Like a garage with tools where I could rent it for a couple of days, and then go work on it with their tools, etc?
Profile says you’re in Seattle. If so, check out The Shop (http://theshopclubs.com). It s a bit more than just a garage to rent, but among the various services it offers to members one of them is the ability to rent their bays with a car lift to work on your car.
>I live in an apartment in a crowded part of the city; no garage, no place for tools.
99% of what you need to work on a car will fit in a large toolbox. It takes experience to weed out the stuff you don't actually need though. Most people make the mistake of thinking they "need" power tools.
The aviation world has similar stuff. In the US, the experimental homebuilt scene is great. Lots of us (myself included) buy a kit and build and customize from there. My build is a kit from Vans Aircraft (likely the biggest of such manufacturers), but other companies sell kits and even just plans to build to your heart’s content. As the builder of record, you’re free to build and customize things like engines and avionics without being a certified mechanic.
Not popular enough that I've heard of them by name, but I also don't tend to dabble with rotors. I prefer my engine up front, and my wings to remain stationary to my person. Also, if you think fixed wing is expensive, wait until you see how much rotorcraft go for...
This is absolutely true. Here's one of Jim's other builds that's sitting in our office. It's a steam powered car on a Model A frame. He and one of our other engineers are getting pretty good at this.
You are right! The amount of work and ingenuity they put in to the chassis is amazing. Mind blowing how everything is done with CAD (cardboard aided design)
binky is bonkers. been following the build since like episode 5. That fella is a wizard with a grinder and a mig welder. absolutely the best auto fabrication i've seen on youtube.
When will we be able to run more OSS on our Teslas, or at least a security hardened version? It's pretty obvious that they can be remotely hacked and made to look like a fatality was driver-error.
Tesla is locked down good for remote hacking. But if you can get physical access you can do just about anything. But the same holds true for every other car.
Agreed on the physical access issue... I guess I'd feel better if some computer security companies put their names on an independent review or something.
I can't wait for an open source car marketplace with standards and blueprints to order or 3d print yourself. I read about more ecar companies like one in upstate NY making old bronco like SUVs
Considering they built a new subframe and raised it so much, this is really more like a custom Tesla/volt frankencar that is wearing the body shell of an Accord as a hat.
Ha came here to see if anyone else'd posted this. I really like what an Accord looks like, also because my parents had one in my childhood, but making it high like this one just makes it look weird and ugly to me.
They really needed a normal strut and control arm setup. I think it was just a poor car choice. something american with wider track and mustang2 front suspension would have been a better fit.
One day, when money is not an issue and I have the time to tinker all day long, I'd love, I mean LOVE, to build my own electric Saab 9000. I'm a big fan of the early, non GM Saabs and currently own two. For some unknown reason, I've always had it in my head that an electrified 9000 would be the most perfect car every possible. I understand and am comfortable knowing I am alone on this. Buy lordy, one big lottery win and I know the first thing I'm getting myself!
I'm not a big car guy, but I am nostalgic for my 9000. Like a true Saab it was in many ways a strangely put together car, but it had a hard to describe feel of being well engineered and a great ride. I owned a 900 too, and had Saab still existed I would most likely still be driving a Saab today.
Perhaps the new Chinese owners jump onto the electric wave and need a good base vehicle? One can dream!
At least an electric 9000 wouldn't have the balance chain chewing up the engine block ;)
It's such a solid car. Over engineered I dare say but such a lovely thing to drive. And personally, I still think it looks quite contemporary amongst cars of today. My father had a 900 and I feel that was my gateway Saab as I adored that thing. In a way I don't really feel for any other cars. I like cars, but often can give or take. Saabs make me feel all funny. Perhaps I should see someone about it... Must admit, I've never had any issues with the balance chain. After a head gasket (that was skimmed, fixed and happy for another 80k) I had a heater matrix go and a radiator, then water pump but I put all these down to the gasket going. Another brilliant thing with the ones of my era, is they are designed to be worked on. No job was ever that much of a pain.
Saab designs have always been timeless (mostly pre-GM of course) and still look great today.
The easiest fix for the balance chain issue on 9000s is to simply remove it. It's a whole subsystem only there to counter vibrations for smoother engine operation. This speaks to your point about over-engineering, but is also an illustration of the kind of design that makes the car feel so good.
Yeah, I'd be happy with one of those! My fathers 900 was very special to me. I'm sure it was a Saab 900 T16s in gun metal grey without the rear side grills.
I have an ebay alert set up for such a model. Sadly although understandably they still command a high price. I've had accidents on eBay with Saabs before. Current owner of a 6 door stretch 9000. Couldn't see it go for scrap value.
Another fun swap: a Tesla drive unit and Volt batteries into a Lotus Evora. Basically recreating the original Tesla Roadster's bigger counterpart.
Volt+Tesla is an increasingly popular swap because the Volt batteries are easier to manage and have a more convenient form factor. Plus, there are more of them available from recyclers.
So, why aren't DIY Powerwall guys snapping up Volt battery packs? I can see two reasons to DIY a Powerwall: Price and to work around Tesla's stupid rules about where/how Powerwall can be installed. Seems like you'd want the cheapest batteries you could get if price is your motivating force in building a DIY Powerwall.
Volt pack is hard to split up to usable voltage. Tesla pack splits in to easy to manage voltages because of it's module design. BMS is also fully decoded on Tesla modules so get to keep safety aspects.
Sounds a lot like the urban legend I read years (and years) ago, about the son of a Porsche dealer who dropped a Porsche Spyder engine into a Volkswagon Bug. According to the story, he had a lot of fun rolling up next to muscle cars at stop lights, and then watching them disappear in his rear view mirror.
> We get this a lot. A police officer picking at his nose while trying to figure out what to charge me with. Notice the hopeful anticipation of us on the right. We're rooting for him and offer suggestions but unfortunately, the California Department of Motor Vehicles did not anticipate such a vehicle so he's out of luck.
The guy from your second link seems to be simultaneously completely crazy and completely awesome. I love his edit:
You have to give the California Department of Motor Vehicles (the DMV) credit for creativity on this one. A DMV insider has disclosed to me that the DMV has made a formal request to a federal agency to rule if my Beetle constitutes a threat to national security based on what could happen if it got into the wrong hands. This raises three questions in my mind: #1 Does this mean I’m the right hands? #2 If someone with the name "b_laden13" is the highest eBay bidder for my Beetle can I refuse his offer even if he has the prestigious eBay Red Shooting Star feedback rating (the highest)? #3 Would this affect my eBay rating?
Small Block into a Volvo 240 is a pretty common hack in Scandinavia, to the point that you can buy kits that have all the required hardware and necessary paperwork to get it approved. They won't do 190 mph, but they are able to convert rubber into smoke perfectly fine.
Back in the 70s I had a motor magazine with a story titled “Big (Golf) Balls” about a German who split a Golf GTI down the middle to widen it, then put a Porsche 911 transaxle in the back. That would have been a Mk I Golf too.
The version I've heard was that someone dropped a Porsche engine into a Trabant, which apparently was an easy swap as some technology for the Trabant was stolen from porche and the engine would just fit straight away. Then the Trabant would smoke everyone from traffic lights. I guess it's just an urban legend.
Back in University, we had one guy in the dorms who said his Uncle Bill put a Miata engine in an MGB. We were contemplating how that would even remotely be possible; looking up pictures of forums boards of both engine bays.
"Well I guess, if you remove all of x, y and z and made custom mounts..."
We later learned this guy ones one of those bullshitters who would lie about everything; told us he was in the national guard and hat to shoot rubber bullets at people looting stores after tornadoes. He was our age and had one of those civilian IDs they give military family members.
Next semester we ask the guy if his uncle will bring his MGB to the car show we were putting together. "Oh he sold it." .... right ...
Anytime we had some crazy idea for our cars. "I wonder if I could convert my mom's Maxima to a 5spd," the respond would always be, "I BET UNCLE BILL COULD DO IT!"
While I'm not saying the guy in college wasn't a liar, there have been many MGB conversions to a V8.
http://www.advanceautowire.com/mgbgtv8/ is just one that I know of. Though I only know because when I was younger, my parents had MGs, sadly my siblings all got one for graduation and I didn't. They figured I would want the computer more.
In the UK they do put K-series[0] engines into the MGB.
[0] The K-series is the descendant of the T16, which is the descendant of the M-series, which is the descendant of the O2-series, which is the descendant of the O-series, which is the engine that we /designed/ for the MGB, but never was put into the MGB before it was canceled. The O-Series instead went into a bunch of work vans and other hateful boxes instead.
So he might have sort of been right. But he was probably still a royal bullshitter.
Descendant only in the fact it came later. The engines share nothing from memory. The K series was an all new small capacity engine (1400cc) on release. Compared to the O, M and L (diesel) it's a fully aluminium block and head with steel damp liners. The K series had its bore and stroke upped to bring it to 1800cc after launch, along with adding variable valve control with the VCC engine.
The two engines share very little in common, the most frequent thing being they're normally both attached to a a PG1 gearbox.
K16 was the motor in the early Lotus wasn't it? I know from my 214 days you could 'easily' change the cams to give more power. I assumed this was what they did for the MG versions. I enjoyed working on the K8 and K16 engines.
I have heard credible similar stories (from an employee) of airship industry's at cardington putting one of the spare 3/4 race Porsche engines (used in the airship) into a Volvo they used as a chase car.
Dunno about a spyder engine, but I used to sometimes tune an old beetle with a 911 (930) turbo engine and transaxle. It ran 9s on the 1/4 in low boost. Shit was scary.
...and somewhere else, someone is probably contemplating swapping a combustion engine into a Tesla. The world has a way of balancing itself out with weird things.
Put a gasoline generator in the frunk and run an extension cord to the charging port. You'll probably get 50-60 MPG. (Teslas cannot leave the Park gear while charging, so a workaround is needed.)
...unless you wanted to retrofit a Toyota eCVT onto a Model S. The Toyota eCVT is quite remarkable in combining electric and mechanical drivetrains entirely through planetary gear ratios, without any shifting. John Kelly at Weber State University has many excellent videos describing these transmissions.[0]
Indeed - the Toyota hybrid synergy drive is a real marvel of engineering. The way in which it uses two separate motor generators to simulate a conventional CVT is just amazing.
Personally, I like the all-natural sound of the Formula E cars, and it's primarily from the gearboxes (straight spur gears). I'd love to see a BMW i3 mod with a sequential shift straight spur transmission like the Quaife QBE60G, and no ESP.
Ford is doing that in pickup trucks. A modern powertrain is so quiet that people think it's weak. There's an aftermarket accessory for Teslas which makes V8 engine sounds.
There's a startup, "evtones", trying to make a market in MP3 engine sounds.[1]
I've been tempted to change the EV audio in my hybrid from the "wooshing" sound to thematic music or video game bleeps, though canned engine noises would be more apropo.
2016 Camry Hybrid - the owner's manual basically says "we're expecting this law to be passed, so we put a speaker in the car nose that goes 'woosh' proportionally to speed in EV mode."
The VW Group call it a Soundaktor, I have it in mine and it’s OK - but it drones at low RPMs.
> It consists of a speaker mounted on the firewall between the engine and the cabin, which adds noise to the cabin in order to replicate the driving experience of older vehicles that had lower levels of sound insulation.
Also worth checking out: http://evbmw.com/ this is electronics wizard and Irishman Damien Maguire converting BMW's (in his view, the best cars in the world) to electric.
His videos are very detailed and also fairly slow paced so you can take your time to understand. He's done several brilliant builds already including an E39 (aka the best 5-series in my opinion), and E31 (8-series from the early 90s).
Currently he's busy with an E36 EUR1000 conversion which almost sounds too good to be true so it will be very interesting to view.
Deep cycle lead-acid batteries have fine cycle lives, and indeed were (and are) used for driving golf carts. However, they trade off for lower specific power, which makes them unsuitable for a full-sized, highway-speed-reaching car.
Why do HNers like Tesla so much? Surely Tesla start the era of electric vehicles,but for me it's just yet another American luxury car.I fancy something more exquisite and fun to drive.
Especially when Tesla keeps pushing the bleeding edge of killing the right to repair that has been on life support in modern cars for decades now. Every auto manufacturer used the invent of digital tech as a means to kill the right to repair (in much the same way almost every industry did - digital tech has proven to be sufficiently magic that commoners won't even recognize what they give up when they go from an easily discoverable and repairable analog solution to a proprietary locked down digital one... at least not until its too late like farmers with tractors) but Tesla blazes trails in how much of a car they can cripple with a proprietary computer so that nobody except Tesla can know how it works, how to fix it, or how to change it.
That is wholly antithetical to hacker culture. If the major tech players of the 80s treated personal computers the way auto manufacturers are treating cars today (or more appropriately for the last ten years) whole categories of software would never have existed. And cars, like the IBM PC architecture, show a seemingly inevitable destiny of the genie being put back in the bottle - for decades you could know how your car works so completely you could replace any one part by hand. In large part the same could be said of many transitionary computer systems - before systemic abstraction layers could cordon off the hardware from the user and render it wholly proprietary and black box (again) there was a short stint of time where you could get the programming manual for your chip and often diagnostic manuals for the mainboard that contained CAD documents related to it for self-repair of capacitors.
New generations of car geeks will be stymied when the cars they grow up with will be magic metal boxes that do things themselves and prevent them from understanding how they work because its more profitable for all involved if you are beholden to someone else to create, operate, repair, and improve the thing than yourself.
Just the same as how new generations of hackers will be stunted by growing up on Android and iOS devices that don't even have an included compiler or any way to install one, on locked bootloaders and proprietary drivers, filled to the brim with planned obsolescence and non-removable batteries and body frames designed to disintegrate if you force it apart to see whats inside.
Thats not to say nobody will push car culture forward the same way hacking won't die, but large corporate interests have certainly done their best to put up all the barriers they can to prevent anyone from developing an interest.
Oddly enough, I've had the chance to briefly drive a trolleybus, and while it doesn't accelerate quite like a Tesla, it's still surprisingly quick off the line, for a multi-ton vehicle. All that torque is available from a standstill.
Calling it a luxury car with that interior is a bit of a stretch in my opinion. Sure it's much better than the cheapest interiors but other than the big screen it doesn't present any luxury over a normal modern mid-ranger sedan (ford, hyundai, peugeot, etc)
A long time ago I would go to the street drags on S. Eubanks in Albuquerque. This guy rolls up in a beater Corvair. Starts powerbraking it, burning up the stock 14” wheels on the back, egging anyone on to race him. Everybody is ridiculing him. One of the regulars with I’d guess about a 12 second muscle car (quarter mile in 1977, pretty fast) takes his challenge.
The Corvair totally smokes the muscle car. I only recall a couple of seriously built cars being that fast. Corvair guy dies his victory lap, comes back to the starting line, stops and turns on his dome light. He’s got a Pontiac 428 where the back seat used to be, a 2 speed automatic is hooked up to a static rear axle via chain drive. Absolutely brilliant in its simplicity and ROI.
I’m taking Corvair guy’s word for it. The transmission was buried under the floor pan, so we couldn’t see the final drive. The car was nearly silent, it didn’t have the typical rumble of a V8. It had this odd whine it made when it was in motion, which he attributed to the chain drive.
Of course, the person in the article probably went low-level enough into the parts not to need the Tesla's software activated, and that's why he didn't manage to run afoul of this.
I was hoping they would talk more about what it took to get the drive electronics running. I half expected the motor controller to refuse to run without some kind of authentication module or something present.
Http://evtv.me has a controller for Tesla drive line and battery's it's all CAN and serial. You can find videos of the decoding process. The one in the Honda uses a controller and modified firmware from hsrmotorsports.com
Wow, that's awesome! And they have all the Tesla parts for sale too... although holy cow, they're expensive! It'd probably be cheaper to buy a written-off Tesla.
I've always felt this policy was a mistake. I kinda understand locking down the software, but not parts, especially when said vechicle is out of warranty.
Get the parts out to DIY'ers. Don't make enemies right out of the gate?
Plus--some of these rebuilders are brilliant.(This guy who out a electric engine in a Honda--for one.)
I know the legal aspect, but just put a disclaimer on the part, like the rest of the them?
So many people are buying high ticket items, but can't repair the item then it breaks.
I guess it's the way the wealthy think? I don't have that luxury. I buy second hand stuff the haves discard.
If I buy something, I should be able to fix it when it breaks down. I'll sign whatever legal papers you this at me. Fool me into thinking your company isn't violating The Sherman Antitrust Act?
I've been poor all my life, and just don't like Authorized Repair Centers touching my stuff, at their outrageous prices.
Especially when that joke of a warranty ends.
To the guy who just bought a $25,000 Rolex watch this weekend.
When it stops, and is out of warranty, you will not be able to repair it yourself. Even if dad taught you how to repair watches from a early age. You can open it, but buying a part from Rolex is something you can't do.
How did I go from Tesla to Rolex? Just a bit off tonight?
I do feel like I'm alone though. In the end, I just don't like the feeling I'm being fleeced, and then telling me, "Oh, it's for Quality Assurance. We care about you."
It’s not a mistake. Tesla needs high margins on every car they sell, both for expansion and because it’s the last unmet requirement of Elon’s compensation package (margins at least 30% for four quarters).
Therefore, no parts/drivetrain unless they’re going into vehicles that can command the necessary premium. It’s not a legal issue; if you want the parts, you’ll need to buy the whole car and tear it down.
One of the European companies, Bosch? Is developing a electric power train module. Far as I could tell, an electric trans-axle and associated power electronics.
Sounds awesome. Back in the day people were (or still are) stuffing VG30 (Nissan 300ZX) engines in 70s era Datsun 510s, which were awesome little rally cars in their time.
One day I'll take my '67 VW Bus and put a nice powerful engine in it. Maybe one of the early 90s Porsche engines (as it would be nice to stay air-cooled and Porsche has VW heritage).
But damn it's an expensive hobby to even own an older car - let alone mod it.
He is just getting his feet wet with this first ev project.
Looking forward to his next one!
This won’t be his last electric build, either. Next up, he’d like to build a full-size version of an RC10 radio control car. That’s our kind of toy, for sure.
Sadly, this kind of things on Spain are far of being possible as a car that run on the streets need to be homologated, and a lot of paperwork. Something stupid and simple like replacing the lights by led lights would required it.
