To add to this, I recently got let go from my job 2 weeks ago . With that said, my boss routinely tried to guilt trip me because I didn't want to work more than 40hrs a week. I have 2 very small children and my wife is pregnant, I can't spend all my time working, nor do I have any desire to. There were a few times I put in a couple of 60hr weeks, but that was only to appease him, not because I felt it was necessary. Like I said, my boss would bully me with phrases like "When CAN YOU work after hours?" "You're a 40hr work week kind of guy" "Time to put on your big-boy pants" and other totally demeaning comments. This was for an IT managed service provider.
The real clincher was that I was let go the day I got back from vacation. The first thing after he said "I gotta let you go" was "You didn't check in at all on your vacation".
That was incredibly disrespectful to me and shows a total lack of empathy for me and my family. I am happy to no longer work for him, although I am in a bit of a financial bind now.
Although I think I would have a decent case against him, I can't afford legal fees right now. And 70% of our clients were law firms who would be more than happy to represent him.
My separation notice said "Unable to perform job duties", which makes no sense, since I worked there for nearly 2 years with positive reviews and multiple successful projects.
But apparently I'm not working because I want to go home at 6pm and take my unpaid lunch.
100% of employment law firms would be more than happy to represent you. If the case is as cut-and-dried as you make it sound fees will probably not be an issue, they will work on contingency.
IANAL. In the US. You can argue that there's an implicit assumption that you will not work on vacation in the employment agreement. Most of the US states are at will states, i.e. a person can be fired for no reason at all, but having a wrong reason, especially when documented in a termination letter, might be a cause for litigation.
Agreed from my experience. From what I have seen it's mostly juniors who are putting in extra time consistently in order to either impress their boss or to get up to speed.
Experienced engineers who are often key technical people in companies are much more consistently going home at 6pm. Makes sense as they are much harder to replace so they can get away with working ordinary hours.
Don't just sue for yourself. Sue to have all their employees reclassified as wage employees rather than salaried exempt, and try to get them to pay out overtime for all that after-hours work.
It would take an examination of the criteria determining the exempt classification.
FLSA 13(a)(17) covers "computer professionals".
If you do not use highly-specialized knowledge, or are not allowed to use your own judgment and discretion, you could potentially challenge the exemption. I would consider the number of hours worked in excess of 40 per week to be part of that discretion. And in my opinion, "at will" employees have significantly reduced discretion, as they can be fired at any time for any reason, or no reason, but I am not a lawyer, and I don't think any judge would ever determine exemptness based solely on that. It might be a contributing factor. If you're at will, and feel like working fewer than 70 hours/week would get you fired, a judge might strip off the exemption just from the pure horror.
But definitely read that section of the law, and ask yourself again whether software professionals need a union. That was specifically written for us--or against us, depending on your opinion of it.
Most of the time, you'll be just fine. Even with the "at-will employment" clauses, most people are decent people. That said, it only takes 1% of managers being dicks to ruin the image for everybody, and it's sad to say that it's probably more than 1%.
It's a gamble in the US. Most of the time, your direct supervisor and your group manager will both be actual, decent humans, and you will never encounter this madness.
But sometimes, one of them, or your division manager, junior VP, senior VP, CTO, or CEO will be an insane demon from the acidic bowels of the abyss, and they will make everyone underneath them miserable.
Generally, you either recognize it immediately and decline the offer, or you start looking for other work as soon as you figure it out, because they will eventually fire you or drive you to quit, and you will have no effective recourse against them.
We have no union aligned to our interests and no political party wanting to curry favor, so malicious employers can get away with whatever they want, and any penalty or backlash is usually dwarfed by the additional money made by the unethical behavior.
The consolation is that if you can get a decent job with sane management, the gross pay before cost of living expenses is a lot higher. You could potentially save up for retirement a lot faster, but you could also get two bad jobs in a row and burn out.
It is not the norm. Maybe for certain segments of people within the country that expect to be able to burn out their employees, but for the most part it is not the norm.
Props for standing up for yourself and not letting them use you without proper compensation. I'm sure you'll be better off somewhere else, where they actually value your personal life & free time.
To be fair, I would expect people to 'check in' on vacation as well.
Not every day - but if you have real responsibilities - others may depend on you.
I know it's not ideal ... but in a 'week off' I'll glance at my emails every few days, and maybe once or twice fire off a little note. That little note can make a huge difference to the machine.
Unless I plan to be 'in Rome' or whatever, in which case I would plan ahead, confer and make sure there was no reason anyone needed me and they knew I could not be reached.
> To be fair, I would expect people to 'check in' on vacation as well.
Your expectation is unwarranted. If your company can't let employees off for a week or two without checking in, I suggest the management style and staffing levels be checked. Your employees need these breaks to attend to mental stress, and adding to their stress by expecting availability during their time off should be re-evaluated.
Responsibility is not a magic switch you can turn on and off.
You can't 'exit a system' if you have responsibilities, in a situation wherein that machine could break down in your absence.
If 'reading a few e-mails' is 'stressful' - then the person has issues working in a professional environment. 'Checking in' should not be stressful. It's just that - popping your head in to see what's up.
In reality - there is absolutely no escaping this for those who have responsibility unless there is a lot of planning, especially the further 'up the chain' you get.
That's why you have teams, I was on the senior level team. We shared the responsibility; thus, I shouldn't have to check-in. Other senior engineers went on vacation during my tenure there without looking at a single email or picking up the phone, so why should I have to be held to a different standard?
Keep it professional. Next time he tries to manage you by stress, respond:"okay so let's discuss overtime pay multiplications".
He wants you to do more, he won't fire you, so he only has to see the costs properly and understand that you are more serious about the overtime than him.
I have one kid so far, and zero overtime, I can't even imagine how it will be with three.
The real clincher was that I was let go the day I got back from vacation. The first thing after he said "I gotta let you go" was "You didn't check in at all on your vacation".
That was incredibly disrespectful to me and shows a total lack of empathy for me and my family. I am happy to no longer work for him, although I am in a bit of a financial bind now.