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"If you're not doing doing anything wrong you have nothing to fear."

Ahh--if only this were ever true.



Again, that statement is only false if these are false accusations.

Are you saying they're false accusations?


My point holds as long as false accusations are possible. Women, like men, are not all angels. Sexism, or even patriarchy, has no gender.


But false accusations are possible about anything. By this logic VCs should avoid talking with anyone.


Sure, if you completely ignore the cultural context.

Rape and sexual assault (of women) is seen as one of the worst possible crimes[0] a man can commit in most Western societies[1]. These crimes are so heinous that even accusations are enough to destroy someone's career and social status, even if the accusations are dropped or proven false.

This is further complicated by these crimes generally being very difficult to prove without recorded evidence and eyewitnesses, creating a dilemma of either treating the accusation as fact (foregoing "innocent until proven guilty") or risking that a criminal can avoid consequences and may go on to repeat his crime. The media often favors the former, people close to the accused often prefer the latter, although even a disproven allegation can sow permanent doubt.

There aren't many crimes a VC could be falsely accused of that have the possibility of such dire consequences and such a low burden of proof.

[0]: The only crime I can think of that society treats as worse than sexual abuse of women is sexual abuse of children.

[1]: This isn't about the relative severity of legal punishments, or in any way a judgement on what crime is "less bad" than another, just how people (and the media) generally react to people being charged with these crimes.


Since the current president celebrates his past assaults on women with no consequences, and threatens his accusers, again with no consequences, and Cosby was recently freed, your thesis that mere accusations damage prominent men rings hollow. The exact opposite is true.

It is so damaging for the women involved (career, socially, and withstanding the barrage of slander, misogyny and distrust that they always seem to face) that it is very hard to step up and simply tell the truth, and you are part of the problem here, with your needless insinuations about false accusations and talk of a low burden of proof.


The cultural context is pretty much the exact opposite. The cultural context is that men with power tend to get away with sexual harassment of subordinates for years before anyone gets caught. Only when there is a mountain of evidence and a small army of accusers does the world actually believe them.

For all of the VCs described in this story - this was a pattern, corroborated by independent sources, and with details in writing. There is in fact a very high burden of proof before anyone even gets blasted in the mainstream media, let alone fired.


I think the distinction that can be made is that allegations of sexual abuse of women are less damaging in some cases than others. That the people in question were able to "get away with it" says more about how their character is generally perceived from the onset than about society in general.

It's true that society is ridiculously "tolerant" of gross misconduct of some people more than others but there are enough examples of lives being ruined by false allegations to validate my original point.

As a sibling comment pointed out, Trump was elected despite his "locker room talk" and multiple women alleging sexual abuse (plus the actual chauvinism he has displayed on numerous occasions). However I would wager that similar allegations would be far more damaging if leveled against someone like Sanders.

There's also the effect that successive allegations sometimes even reduce the credibility of the allegations because of suspected bandwagoning ("Oh, she just wants some of that attention to make herself interesting").

Humans are fickle and irrational, especially when in a group. Individuals tend to be treated differently but this tends to be more about social status than gender itself.


[flagged]


>The people getting in trouble are the serial harassers who are so egregiously bad that a multitude of incidents are documented.

Donglegate was less than five years ago, did you already forget about it?


Donglegate wasn't about false accusations, though. It was about a woman publicly shaming two other attendees for what she considered inappropriate jokes in a public setting and then being caught in the blowback when other people were unhappy with how she handled the situation.

Her accusations were factual, although there was discussion about whether they were valid.

Also, the people who agree that her accusations were valid, are also likely the people who think that their behavior was indicative of them being serial harassers.


I was responding to this too:

>The people getting in trouble right now are not the borderline cases of someone saying an awkward comment here or there.

>Also, the people who agree that her accusations were valid, are also likely the people who think that their behavior was indicative of them being serial harassers.

Which is completely unreasonable. Do you remember what she complained about them saying? Dongles and forking repos? They were discussing among themselves, it wasn't targeted at anyone, and any reasonable person wouldn't believe it was sexist.


I'm not saying that I'm one of those people. I'm just saying they're generally pretty consistent about these things and they exist.


I agree that donglegate was bullshit.

But cases like are few and far between.

And IMO the majority of people on the internet were supportive of the guy who got fired, and also thought it was bullshit.

The woman who started the whole drama received way worse retaliation from the Internet mob (which was partially deserved) and got fired as well, so it was tit for tat at least, although that of course doesn't fix the damages.


Ellen Pao case shows they are quite possible.


>False accusations are basically not possible though.

Of course they are. There is opportunity, therefore it is possible.


Are you suggesting the false sexual harassment / rape accusations never happen? I think there are some athletes from Duke who were subject to character assassination and would entirely disagree with you.


>Are you saying they're false accusations?

Of course there are false accusations out there. It's not the majority of them or even a significant number. But it's not zero.


It is a significant number. For example in Hardvard campus 20% of the allegations were determined to be false[0]; but this is a controversial subject and the numbers all over the place[1] from state to state and even more from country to country but overall most quote numbers that are not an insignificant number.

[0]http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/report-1-in-5-campus-rape-...

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_accusation_of_rape


So long as there are incentives to make false accusations, there will always be false accusations. Just as there will always be true accusations.




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