I specifically used C# so as not to convolute things. I couldn't very well compare .NET with Java/Ruby/Python, since that would be like comparing 'car' to 'blue/red/orange'. I put .NET in parens next to it so someone that didn't know the distinction would realize why the heck I was suddenly talking about C#, when the article had .NET in the title.
I honestly can't speak to C# 3.0, because the little bit I did with C# was at an old job and we were using 2.0. I guess I would clarify that coming from C++, Java once seemed elegant and fun, but no longer does. C# never seemed elegant or fun to me, because I had already worked in a dozen other languages by the time I got to it, and frankly, it (2.0) seemed like a Java wannabe. (And I'm not exactly a Java fan either.)
As for garbage collection... not even sure what in my post made you mention that, but I wouldn't exactly consider a garbage collector to be an earth shattering feature. Many languages have had them for years.
I can't claim to be a .NET expert by any means, and, as I pointed out in my last sentence (and you pointed out with your links), the .NET ecosystem seems better than one would expect. I was trying to point out the problems as I saw them in the traditional Microsoft ecosystem (and the modern day Java one)... namely, the accumulation of cruft (Java) and the cost of tools/libraries/software (MS).
I had a relatively strong reaction to you grouping C# (and .NET) with Java (and Java's libraries). :)
Why did you say that it costs $8,000 to be trained in... something? (A language feature? A library? A development tool?) Anything you need to learn can be found in the free MSDN docs or by using Google. A developer that needs an $8,000 training session may not be worth his $60k salary.
Why did you say that it costs $8,000 to be trained in... something?
Haha, at my last job, when the company decided to switch to .NET and C#, they ordered this hilarious three day training course that ended up costing about $30k (four people went). The guy doing the training knew his stuff, but I don't think I'm alone thinking this a bit ridiculous. Obviously this isn't .NET's fault, or C#'s, or even Microsoft's. It just comes to mind when I hear the term 'dot net' ... as it was a major sign that I should be leaving that job soon (which I did).
A developer that needs an $8,000 training session may not be worth his $60k salary.
100% agree. Like I said in my OP, I think C# (and .NET) and Java (with it's libraries) can be used for wonderful things by wonderful people... the problem is, being the industry standard, there are a lot of very unwonderful people in the way.
I honestly can't speak to C# 3.0, because the little bit I did with C# was at an old job and we were using 2.0. I guess I would clarify that coming from C++, Java once seemed elegant and fun, but no longer does. C# never seemed elegant or fun to me, because I had already worked in a dozen other languages by the time I got to it, and frankly, it (2.0) seemed like a Java wannabe. (And I'm not exactly a Java fan either.)
As for garbage collection... not even sure what in my post made you mention that, but I wouldn't exactly consider a garbage collector to be an earth shattering feature. Many languages have had them for years.
I can't claim to be a .NET expert by any means, and, as I pointed out in my last sentence (and you pointed out with your links), the .NET ecosystem seems better than one would expect. I was trying to point out the problems as I saw them in the traditional Microsoft ecosystem (and the modern day Java one)... namely, the accumulation of cruft (Java) and the cost of tools/libraries/software (MS).