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Saudi Arabia's problems are an indication that Islam is a bigger problem for Muslims themselves than it is for anyone else.

Innovation and technology just doesn't thrive in an illiberal society.




Back in the day, Islamic society actually made many great notable scientific discoveries:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_in_the_medieval_Islami...


Yes, unfortunately those days are long gone.


Islam only dates back to 610 with one person. So, I am not sure how 'Islamic' the area was around 900-1000.

After all, Christianity to a long time to become central in Europe. In 300 they where only something like 10% of the Roman population. Not to mention looking very different from 'Modern' Christianity.


That doesn't really have much to do with islam, though.


No, it doesn't. It's the way those who think of themselves as Muslims think of what they call Islam. The issues of Islam holding Muslims back in terms of freedom, prosperity and progress just currently seem to be more problematic in that religion compared to others.

I believe these things can and will change. For one thing, many, if not most Muslims will cease to believe/practice as strongly as they do now, and for another, I do believe that devout Muslims are able to modernize their interpretations.


It does have everything to do with Islam. It teaches intolerance. Remember that Islam is not just the book, it is the people that practice it.


This crosses into religious flamewar, which is not allowed here. We ban accounts that comment like this.


If it helps most other religions have been just as bad at one time or another, Christianity, Judaism, etc... I instead prefer to pray to the Flying Spaguetti Monster. I beg you Spaguetti Monster, protect me from the wrath of dang!


> ..Islam. It teaches intolerance

It could be said of the salafi sect of Islam that rules/controls Saudi Arab. But Islamic practices are as varied as any other religion. Unfortunately the percentage of conservative Muslims could be higher, than perhaps other religions (or practices), which managed to evolve. But I dare say, a lot of the stagnation is due to the geo politics of the region (or simply Oil economy and vested interests of US). Which wanted just strong allies, which could ensure stability and flow of Oil at cheap enough prices.

> Remember that Islam is not just the book, it is the people that practice it.

But even within Islamic cultures its so varied, if you look at people in Saudi Arabia, to those in Iran, to those in Turkey, to those in India/Pakistan, to those in Indonesia.

So lets look at history of Iran, which under the 1st Shah brought in lot of modernity. And was about to settle into a British like monarchy, when Mossadegh was democratically elected in 1952, and 2nd Shah was playing a retired monarch's role. Unfortunately Mossadegh was too ambitious and wanted to nationalize Iran's oil, and CIA and MI contrived to plan a coup and forced Shah 2nd to come back. Which later on resulted in 79 Islamic revolution.

So that single incident set Iran back by perhaps 50 years, in terms of reforms and modernity.

So some facts (like your terse and singular classification) may actually be not so, but be a lot layered and complex .


Thank you. Of course you are right. It is all very complex and western powers have a lot of fault of what is happening right now. Unfortunately those guys will never be punished and instead we, the populations of the world are left yo suffer the consequences. Even I knew going into Iraq and Libia would leave those countries worse off.


Religion generally seems to bring forward intolerance. I wouldn't single out Muslims in that regard. The very idea of "my god is right/more powerful/more existing than yours" is, in a way, intolerant.

It also feels to me that Islamic society is lagging behind Christianity in a few regards, so some of what we may now perceive as bad or even evil traits may just vanish over time anyway.


the majority of modern science was created in european illiberal societies.




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