"inbred" seems to have a factual basis, that's fair.
"luddite" in this context is an unnecessarily loaded term that suggests an ignorance of history. (I.E., the luddites [1] were not simplistically anti-technology, they were anti-"the crown suddenly taking away the common land and giving it to rich capitalists to enrich themselves with industry while displacing us as laborers, and then blaming us for being against progress", ie, "Enclosure.') [2]
"abuse their children" requires proof. Is there evidence the amish abuse their children at a rate higher than the rest of society, and/or other cultural enclaves such as tight-nit immigrant groups?
I knew briefly a woman who had ran away from everything she knew at 17, to avoid a marriage. The stories of what counted as "normal" was horrific, especially with regards to daughters. Between the corporal punishment, starvation and strict-to-consequence-of-abandonment gender roles, it mapped closely to the popular conception of young women in radical islam.
"Luddite" is one of those words like "gay": it has a very different primary meaning today than it used to. I'm aware of both meanings and I used "luddite" in the common, modern sense of being anti-technology.
> Is there evidence the amish abuse their children at a rate higher than the rest of society…
Where to start? The Amish stance on corporal punishment of children is well-known. "Spare the rod, spoil the child" (as Proverbs 13:24 is commonly misquoted) applies. Hitting children is common in Amish households and schools. Sources on this range from atheist neighbors[1], to friends of the Amish[2], to books that praise the Amish[3]. And speaking of Amish schools: They end at the 8th grade. People like to think that Amish teenagers have a choice about leaving the community, but what choice do they have when their prospects in modern life are so limited by their lack of education?
To frame it more concretely: If you had a neighbor who denied their children cold drinks or air conditioning on hot days, who hit them for questioning religion, and who took them out of high school so they could do work, is there any doubt that you would call child protective services? It flabbergasts me that the Amish get a pass here.
> …and/or other cultural enclaves such as tight-nit immigrant groups?
This is moving the goalposts. It doesn't matter whether other groups also abuse their children. "But FLDS groups abuse their kids too!" is not an excuse that our society tolerates. In fact, with the FLDS, we sent in SWAT teams and arrested the church leaders. Sadly, the Amish seem to be grandfathered in.
The child abuse is the issue that gets the biggest rise out of me, but it's just the tip of the iceberg. There are many other ways in which the Amish needlessly inflict suffering on each other. Due to their piety, Amish positions on topics such as birth control, homosexuality, and the rights of women shouldn't surprise you.
"The Amish stance on corporal punishment of children is well-known"
I live in the Amish community referenced in this article and I have never seen nor heard of any corporal punishment nor child abuse. Indeed, I have never heard any Amish person even yell, scold or argue with anyone. Because of that, I am pretty sure such issues are rare in this area.
"People like to think that Amish teenagers have a choice about leaving the community, but what choice do they have when their prospects in modern life are so limited by their lack of education?"
Most Americans, Amish or not, do not become software developers, bankers, accountants, etc. Lots of Amish leave. For example, two doors down from my house there is an elderly Amish couple. All of their children are non-Amish but still support, visit, help, interact with their parents. Not surprisingly, most ex-Amish do not pursue fields requiring advanced education but tend to do very well in more blue core businesses where their work ethic, integrity and significant youth experience working at home can be turned into a solid career.
I live in the Amish community referenced in this article and I have never seen nor heard of any corporal punishment nor child abuse. Indeed, I have never heard any Amish person even yell, scold or argue with anyone. Because of that, I am pretty sure such issues are rare in this area.
Are you part of the community, or just live in the area? Because if the latter, it's hardly surprising; socially conservative people rarely handle their family matters in public.
Our neighbors are Amish and Mennonite. We know and interact with many of them including people who left being Amish. And even the ones who left and have issues with the Amish, I have never heard or seen any incidents of child abuse.
Do you have some evidence of systematic Amish child abuse beyond your stereotype of "socially conservative people rarely handle their family matters in public"?
Child abuse exists in the world, among tech founders, politicians, Amish, atheists, etc. I am simply saying, based on direct interaction and knowledge that it is most certainly uncommon in Lancaster Amish.
- an anecdote from a "very rural part of Ohio" where the Amish "lived in grinding poverty". I have no experience with Ohio Amish so I cannot comment but what they describe is nothing like Lancaster Amish (the article referenced here and my comments on).
- an entry from Amish America talks about spankings, which is a practice statistics show most American parents do https://www.google.com/search?q=percentage+americans+spank+c... From what I have seen of the Amish, I think it is significantly less than the average American.
If you think it is child abuse to not let your children go to high school or to deprive them of the 'real' world, that is a different story.
My impression was that the luddites were a movement against machines which let the factory workers replace high paying skilled jobs with low paying unskilled jobs.
EDIT: Ah, I see your comment below now, that's fair, I guess I should have used better citations.
In short -- in the period before enclosure, many of the people who became the luddites were allowed to work common land for their own benefit despite not owning it themselves. This was a major source of sustenance for them.
After enclosure, they were deprived of this. The factory owners exploited enclosure to get land to build their factories on. So it wasn't just automation replacing workers, it was also depriving them of a resource (common land) they previous depended on via privatization.
I can't read the whole book but I couldn't find anything in the Amazon article about land or enclosure.
The enclosure wiki article doesn't mention Luddites. The only thing I could guess at is that this process seems to have driven peasants into the cities to become workers in factories. But i thought the luddites were skilled if not educated upper middle class workers(like UAW autoworkers used to be) not peneniless peasants. Although I suppose some of them might have been employed as apprentices and developed the needed skills.
"inbred" seems to have a factual basis, that's fair.
"luddite" in this context is an unnecessarily loaded term that suggests an ignorance of history. (I.E., the luddites [1] were not simplistically anti-technology, they were anti-"the crown suddenly taking away the common land and giving it to rich capitalists to enrich themselves with industry while displacing us as laborers, and then blaming us for being against progress", ie, "Enclosure.') [2]
"abuse their children" requires proof. Is there evidence the amish abuse their children at a rate higher than the rest of society, and/or other cultural enclaves such as tight-nit immigrant groups?
[1] http://www.amazon.com/Rebels-Against-The-Future-Industrial/d... [2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enclosure