It's exactly the same with banks, except "we" (normal plebs) cannot actually see when it happens, as compared to blockchains where all data is public. With banks it happens all the time, but no one knows, so it doesn't make the news. When it happens in blockchains (that one time), it's very obvious so it makes the news.
I'll make no argument for/against cryptocurrencies here, as the discussion if it's good/bad is futile. My comment is just a statement of fact about the differences/similarities of what we have now, and what cryptocurrencies offer.
How is it at all the same? The banking system is not immutable, the chargeback for example is available to all the "plebs" and we make regular use of it when transactions go awry.
Normally you do not have to actually directly interact with the legal system to reverse a fraudulent bank transaction. The banks have internal policies to comply with the legal system, because the other outcome is more expensive for them.
If you initiated a wire to the wrong account, that's one thing. The banks will not reverse this sort of transaction, to my understanding. If someone else fraudulently initiated a wire from your account, then that's another thing. This type of transaction will be reversed. I'm not sure which situation you're talking about. ACH transactions are a whole other ballgame.
I’m talking about me wiring money to someone who was actually a scammer, same as AI said before.
If your response is “oh well you should have been more careful about that”, congratulations on endorsing the very same defense crypto enthusiasts were giving and validating that they’re not all that different.
I reckon that the wire transfer is one of those things where you get a ton of warnings from your bank that the transaction is normally not reversible, at least it is at my bank. I think it's unfortunate that there are any legitimate transactions that require wire transfers -- I definitely am not someone who endorses the status quo here.
I guess my take is that all crypto transactions have properties strictly worse than the worst type of bank transfer. In addition to being irreversible when you initiate them, they are also irreversible if someone fraudulently initiates them on your behalf. And there is no more secure option that you can use with crypto. There is to my knowledge nothing in the crypto space with security properties similar to an ACH transfer.
Too bad for you, my sympathies. But there is still a huge difference here: Someone has your money; it didn't cease to exist. (So from the bank's viewpoint: "Our books are balanced, it went from one account to another.") In this crypto case though, the money was destroyed by the system; the "bank" "ate" it. At least that shit doesn't happen in the old Alfa Romeo banking system.
Yes, there is a difference in that respect. But I was replying to the parent’t point that, because the banking system is run by humans, obviously they will fix anything for you that a human can identify as a bad result. (Like sending the money to the wrong place or to a scammer.)
It’s kind of missing the point to focus on the narrow issue of “can you accidentally destroy money in the conventional banking system?”
> It’s kind of missing the point to focus on the narrow issue of “can you accidentally destroy money in the conventional banking system?”
No it isn't. That's a huge difference. On the contrary, focusing on “Shit happens in the conventional banking system too!”, that's missing the point, IMO.
It’s not really a difference because you can destroy money in the conventional banking system eg by burning paper money. And it’s extremely important if the defense you’re giving I’d wrong, which it is, if that defense is “humans can come in and correct obviously unreasonable things”.
In both conventional banking and crypto, yes, there are situations of “sorry, you’re fucked, but like, you’re just supposed to know not to do that” (where “that” is send wires you’re not 100% sure of or guard your physical cash carefully).
No offense, but you really seem to be drawing the abstraction boundaries poorly here.
> you can destroy money in the conventional banking system eg by burning paper money.
But that's an accident or intentional vandalism by a user of the system; it isn't built into the system itself.
> In both conventional banking and crypto, yes, there are situations of “sorry, you’re fucked, but like, you’re just supposed to know not to do that” (where “that” is send wires you’re not 100% sure of or guard your physical cash carefully).
In conventional banking the “sorry, you’re fucked” situations don't destroy the money banking is all about handling.
> you really seem to be drawing the abstraction boundaries poorly here.
My "abstraction boundary" (if I understand the term correctly?) is: A system that can have parts that do this -- destroy the very thing it's supposed to handle, "money" -- is a crap system. "Yeah, but you can burn cash!" (vandalism) or "Mistype an account number and the money is lost (to you)!" (not destructive) are not system critiques but whataboutism.
Currency-changing ATMs (do such things exist? If not, why not?) or vending machines like for petrol don't have built-in banknote shredders.
[Edit: Left off half a sentence, screwed up emphases.]
In the banking system every day there are reversals for many mistakes of different kinds even if the amounts are tiny and only ordinary people are involved, and if $500k is at stake, the legal system can be used to "convince" banks to do what's right even if they don't want to.
I love the current version of Deno for smaller hobby projects. But using it in a full blown production env with actual paying customers depending on it is a whole different story.
Deno is a lot simpler and more cohesive than node. But the simplicity is what currently stops me from attempting any big projects with it. Yes, having no package.json files is great - but on the other hand it hinders me from configuring my project in one file.
> There are TONS of easy and healthy recipes out there.
The cooking itself is not difficult, but you have surrounding activities that take significant time like prep, cleanup (dishes, cookware, table etc.), and extra time for grocery shopping (want fresh vegetables? you're probably going to have to shop every 3 days if not everyday. want diverse meals, you're going to need to spend time planning)
I have timed myself and the extra time cost here is definitely significant. I still cook my own meals because I think the trade off is worth it but I'm completely aware how much time (even the "invisible" time) I'm investing to do that.
> You can also just meal prep and cook for a whole week in lne session.
There's several points here: 1) prepping ahead of time doesn't suddenly make it cost no time... you're just shifting the time (likely into weekends, where a lot of people would probably want to spend that time doing other things!) and 2) pre-prepping means you either limit what type of food you can have (decreasing in quality the further it is from prep day) or it means you need to freeze, seal or can stuff, which negates a lot of the health benefits to begin with, potentially produces waste (sealing) and costs extra time!
I think you will like JetBrains Fleet. However, it is still in beta and from my experience testing it, I guess it won’t launch before the second half of the year.
Love Deno. So much much more intuitive and simple than Node. I highly recommend you giving it a try, if you used Node before, Deno will be a super easy to learn tool.
People pay for VPNs but continue using the web with their normal accounts, thinking their privacy is protected.
A private search engine would be a much better way to protect the privacy.
Well you can actually build something yourself. Sure, someone else built e.g. the code editor you‘re using, but if you come up with an algorithm yourself, you did, by definition, build it yourself.
If you create an algorithm, it is likely based on previous algorithms you learned, and millenia of mathametics.
To implement it in a computer, you likely rely on an operating system to run on, layers of userspace libraries, layers of firmware, many independent hardware components. An electrical supply.
