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These opinions always pop up during these conversations. I agree spending a ton of money on a degree that isn't going to secure you a well-paying job is not a good idea if you do not want to be in debt for years and years.

However, trades are not a silver bullet and there are many down sides. The pay starts out low, and a lot of the time STAYS low. Trades are notorious for stress injuries. Electrician is ACTUALLY a kind-of dangerous job. You can fry yourself by being careless. As are a lot of the trades.

I would rather have my health, a valuable degree, and body fully working than not have student loan debt.

You can pay off debt and make it go away if you are smart. You cannot heal your shot joints.

SO MANY young people abuse their body thinking it's going to be young forever. It is not.


"valuable degree" is the key part there.

My dad worked in a factory the majority of his life. We were instructed early and often to go to college and not ruin your body doing manual labor.


I always think of it like this:

We already try and make coding as fast and easy as possible. The software industry is not a racket that is hiding some magic tool. If we had a magic bullet that any end-user could use to build their software, we would all be using it already.


Every piece of plastic you have ever encountered still exists somewhere. Think about that. Humans create a STAGGERING amount of trash and we need to stop.


Police are useful for suppressing labor and equality movements. Also, there are areas of concentrated poverty in the United States with high crime. There, a lot of people make their money by selling drugs, and police are expected to use violence to stop this. If the police forces main goal in these areas is NOT to persecute and sabotage these POC communities, that is what they effectively do . [O]

That is why the handful of people that control the media push a pro-police message so hard. They do not want the public to turn against their keepers.

They have a rich and powerful police union that lobbies to make sure the laws favor the police. They have the backing of the ultra-wealthy class to keep people in line. If you try to peacefully protest, they will just mace you and the media will say it is your fault.

The police themselves tend to be good chaps but they do not get nearly enough training, and any training they do get pushes then towards considering the line of duty a combat zone, even though police officer is not even in the top 10 moat dangerous jobs. Also they tend to be not brilliant. They want obedience not critical thinkers. You can fail a police IQ test if you score too high. [1]

Finally, while most cops are good people, if you are a sadist becoming a police officer is a good career because it lets you sate your lust for power and there is very little chance you will be punished for it.

- 0: check out "the new jim crow"

- 1: https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-in-the-U-S-people-can-...


Few hundred thousand dollar difference between a nice car and a nice computer.


Not remotely. You can buy a truly fast car-- 200mph fast-- for under $20,000 pretty easily. If you're willing to wrench on it you can get sub-4 seconds to 60 for under $15,000. That kind of performance would have been supercar territory not too long ago, and would certainly count as nice cars today. At below $100,000 I could name a dozen cars that offer a combination of great looks and incredible performance.


debatem1 uses Arch, btw.


Pardon? I'm not clear on why I'm being downvoted, and I don't use arch, and I don't see why that would be relevant.


Arch Linux is popular with users who will endure some discomfort and manual work to get a powerful and satisfying experience. I thought it would be funny to baselessly assert a connection.

Gentoo would have been an even better analogy.


Welllll I did run Gentoo some years ago, so... not that baseless :). But you really don't have to work hard to get a quite nice (but not world-beating) car for $20k.


You are being downvoted because nice != fast so it comes off as a bit off topic.

My original comment was pointing out the disparity between a nice car and a nice laptop. Even a 20k car is at least 5x the cost of a top of the line laptop.


Ok. Your claim was a few hundred thousand dollar difference; I suppose we could quibble about what constitutes a nice car, but >$100,000 buys you a Z-06 or a Jaguar XJ. It's quite the exaggeration, unless your tastes run very extreme. To which I say: the only nice computer is a Cray :).


To get to 200 mph, you're probably gonna need about 600 horsepower, give or take depending on aerodynamics. How are you finding 600 horsepower for under $20K?


A Mercedes SL55 AMG sans limiter will hit 200mph at roughly 500HP, and it's pretty easy to pick one of the 2007s with the fixed top for around $20k. If you go down to the 2003s you have plenty of options going down into the $15k range and they're almost as fast. They're also, to my eyes, pretty good looking and very comfortable-- although I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want to go around any sharp corners at those speeds.

You can also get a similar era V10 M5 or M6 for about the same cash and those will go like crazy. Again, to my eyes, good looking cars.

If you're patient and haggle well you can probably pick up a viper SRT-10, although you might be waiting a while; I see some around $24k but no lower without salvage titles.

I could go on, but you get my point. There are a ton of cars out there that really are pretty incredible for not a lot of money.


> A Mercedes SL55 AMG sans limiter will hit 200mph at roughly 500HP, and it's pretty easy to pick one of the 2007s with the fixed top for around $20k.

Huh, you're right. Actually, more than right. If I don't mind travelling across the country, I can get a 2005 SL55 AMG for $7,500. That car was 6 figures at release, though. That's a LOT of value to lose!

> They're also, to my eyes, pretty good looking

I will disagree there. I think they look boring as all hell. Obviously, this is entirely subjective.

> There are a ton of cars out there that really are pretty incredible for not a lot of money.

I might dispute "incredible" here, for two reasons. First, surprisingly cheap high-performance cars are so frequently from luxury brands that don't consider long-term reliability to be luxury features. Also, despite the SL55 AMG being able to hit 200 MPH, it weighs more than most SUVs, and so has a pitiful 0-60 time of 4.5 seconds. I admit I'm moving the goal posts a bit here, but quick acceleration is more important to me than top speed. I can't use 200 mph on my daily commute, but I can use a 0-60 speed on the on-ramp, or whenever I need to accelerate quickly to pass someone.


I mean, I guess I'm not sure where to go with this. You won't put down better than 4s to 60 daily driving any more than you would put down 200mph in the same circumstances, because you'll have a V10 roaring at you the whole time and literally everyone on the street will be sending hateful thoughts your way.

But if 0-60 is most important, I'd look at things like that SRT-10 (which makes it in 3.7s stock) or maybe even soup up a CTS-V, which can hit it in 3.3 with some work. Granted both of those, with modifications, will probably wind up closer to $25k than $20-- but who knows, you might get lucky.

Despite that, I maintain my original position: these are far, far beyond just being "nice" cars, and unless you can get a nice computer system for less than negative $80,000 there is no way to get such a system for even one hundred thousand dollars less than these cars, let alone several hundred thousand.


0-60 in 4.5 seconds is a really good time, especially in 2005. it only seems pitiful because street cars are ridiculously overpowered at the high end these days.

my hot hatch can do it in six seconds, and even that is a bit too much to use unless the road is wide open with no traffic.


I've worked with google support before on multiple occasions. For their retail store, fi, and their cloud offering at the $400/mo cloud support contract.

Their support is bad. I would not recommend using any of their products. I would not choose to work there because I cannot imagine it is any better internally.


Ex Chicagoan here. Basically corruption and incompetence took the actual money away

The money did exist. Workers pay into the pensions as part of their compensation package.

Chicago borrowed against the actual pension accounts and corruption/incompetence drained them. Then they did scoop and throw methods for two decades to avoid having the pensions land on their heads.

There is a ton or corruption in Chicago. I have a friend who works for Idot. They have a lot of workers on the payroll who are making 6 figures. My friend has never seen these people who are supposed to be his co-workers show up for work, and when he asked he was told "Don't bring it up. Over your head. We can't fire them."


An non-neutered/spayed dog wouldn't spray on someone's leg? That is false. Dogs tend to be VERY free with their markings.


My partner worked for a non-profit, who apparently traded her name and address to other mailing lists, and it steamrolled out of control. We get PILES of junk mail from various Christian and anti-choice organizations that I find repugnant. It is also just annoying to throw the mail into the recycling and have to deal with the security issues of having piles and piles of mail with our names and addresses on it.

This is our new reality: Constant kafkaesque bullshit that wastes of our time to keep these corporations from sucking our blood.


I am amazed at how Docker bricked on Docker Swarm so hard.

I assert to this day that the only conclusion to choosing Docker Swarm is to rewrite a worse version of Kubernetes.


Especially given we used to have Meetups at the office every Thursday night, where at least 1 new Orchestration project was launched/demoed every week.

The initial project the team worked on was called Beam. After about 6 months and no progress to show, the conversations referenced above happened and this is the result..

Kubernetes launched at the first DockerCon[1], early 2014. Swarm was launched[2] in beta in Dec 2014.

So, roughly 1 year late to market, 6 months after initial K8 launch.

1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrxnVKZeqK8

2: https://blog.docker.com/2014/12/announcing-docker-machine-sw...


I still rather like some of the output beam (libchan), just that GRPC came along and it's all history now.

But yes agreed this was all completely frustrating at the time, and completely depressing now.


This developer, Gerhard Lazu, states otherwise regarding Kubernetes as he describes the infrastructure that he built for changelog.com based on Docker Swarm rather than K8s: https://changelog.com/podcast/254


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