I don’t have the full picture here, but the source article implies that folks weren’t just complaining, but also offering PRs to fix the issues, which were rejected. That feels less like entitlement to me and more like bad stewardship of the project, but again, most of my info is biased by source article.
One must also consider the typical quality of a PR - that is, lacking in many fundamental ways. Missing documentation, missing tests, doesn't match existing style, and sometimes just plain incorrect.
At some point, a flood of poor PRs can be worse than a flood of angry bug reports. The cost of validating and cleaning up a PR is significantly higher than closing a bug.
This is why I wrote "forked". They do have the right to not accept PRs for their own project, no? Sure, someone can be a bad steward, or maybe just opinionated. Doesn't give anyone the right to be mean to the point of making them quit their own project.
Here is an example of an actual comment. I believe the thread is deleted now:
> "seriously? Please just stop writing Rust. You do not respect semver, you do not respect soundness, so why are you using a language predominantly based around doing these things right?"
This is what I was thinking of when I wrote "far, far over the line."
That comment is demeaning, unhelpful, and in very bad taste. It's the comment that the delete functionality on GitHub was made for. However, one of the other participants in the thread immediately called out this comment. So you have a constructive dialog, a single bad actor, and said single actor being called out by the people having the constructive dialog. That doesn't sound like an unhealthy community to me, to be perfectly frank.
I agree that the comment is in bad taste but what I don't see this being considered a "far, far, far over the line." comment when I take into consideration that it had been posted in reply to the maintainer's also dismissive comment "this patch is boring" so, yes, the user has definitely been rude, but chances are it's a visceral response too.
Otherwise if that event is far far over the line I wonder what out of the blue insults or death threats qualify as.
Yes, that comment was not ok but as far as I have seen that is the only comment which keeps getting quoted. All but a handful of people seem to have been civil.
Not to mention that that was a comment on GitHub, not on Reddit, even though the "far, far, far over the line" statement was about "the now-usual Reddit uproar". I guess Klabnik just really dislikes Reddit.
This! It is utterly disingenous - in fact, it is simply lying - to characterise users' interactions with the maintainer here as harrassment, or abusive, or entitled.
I completely agree with you, especially considering that comment was posted in reply to the maintainer's also dismissive comment "this patch is boring", which to me makes it seem not as bad as if it were out of the blue...
HN discussions do not always live up to HN ideals. This is not be used as a reason to drag others down to our level. Instead it should make us reflect on our own behaviour.
I think it's a cultural issue, but I honestly don't see what's so offensive about this comment (I was expecting something far worse), especially if it's factual assumptions are true. Honest question, can somebody explain the issue here to me, and how one would express these concerns otherwise? I feel as if I just don't get American culture of politeness and niceness to appreciate it.
It's a personal attack. The poster is telling the maintainer to quit writing Rust, implying he can never get better and basically demeaning his whole effort.
Do you not see how that is (a) not related to the project and (b) rude in any context?
If you were, say, singing karaoke and someone came up to you and said "you're awful, never sing again, you're off-key, you don't know the words"... Is that not rude to you?
I don't claim to know much about either karaoke or rust, but from what little I know of both, that seems wrong. The Rust community expects safe code, while bad singing is expected at karaoke bars.
The comparison was about how to communicate respectfully and appropriately, not about making an perfect analogy.
Think of it this way then: it is completely possible for the Rust community to expect safe code without being entitled assholes about how they communicate that expectation.
I massaged the GitHub API logs[0] with jq to make a readable version of the issue history[1]. I was firstly (based on the blog post) feeling bad about the maintainer... but after reading the issue report, it turns out multiple people were working on the issue and the author responded... 'this patch is boring'. That's... certainly not good to people who are trying to resolve the issue. He even goes to threatening to delete the organization if people talk about the issue.
The initial back and forth isn't the issue, it was reasonably civil, if putting a bit of resistance to fixing the issue. The problem was the escalation which happened when it got posted to reddit, where the suddenly things got a whole lot more virtiolic and most of the vitriol was coming from those not involved in the original discussion at all. A similar thing tends to happen with systemd issues, for example (generally in that case they close the original issue to stop more comments and make a new issue or move discussion to a different platform, but still this will spill over into making new issues, PRs, etc). This behaviour is basically worthless to harmful whenever it happens, because it doesn't further the discussion in any way and just causes headaches for maintainers.
